What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

KVRist
 
210 posts since 30 Jun, 2004

Postby NothanUmber; Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:04 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

The protocol and how hosts might implement a compatibility mode for legacy plugins are two things. The protocol defines how to describe per voice modulations in one instance. The legacy extension that some hosts might implement works around the problem that existing synths won't understand that extended protocol. For that they split the extended stream into one standard midi stream per voice and feed that into separate plugin instances. For that they will probably use one instance per voice though, not per note. Like a 88 key piano doesn't have to have 88 voices you don't need to reserve one voice per possible midi note. Without a damper pedal 10 voices are likely a good start for 10 fingers.
KVRist
 
210 posts since 30 Jun, 2004

Postby NothanUmber; Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:07 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

BMoore wrote:What are you actually using/needing per note automation and poly aftertouch for?

For controllers/instruments with several dimensions per key (see previous posting). Or for creating a breathing midi-track more easily (with standard midi you have to put each voice on it's own track)
KVRAF
 
1930 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:25 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

To add, with my [albeit limited] understanding of note expression, one can start a note in legato, mid way through keyswitch to staccato and end with tremolo. Giving the track dimension as NothanUmber suggests.

Or, start with low volume and end with full blast.

Etc., etc.

What I have described can be done with multiple instances and multiple tracks; however, this eats resources and requires an extraordinary amount of programming.

If VST3.5 is what I expect it is then it needs to happen - fast. of course I'm probably mistaken, or under a misconception of its purpose and function. Wouldn't be the first time. :hihi:

Oh, hell, I just like buying vst's and daws :hihi:

Happy Musiking!
dsan
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
KVRAF
 
2097 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin
 

Postby ThomasHelzle; Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:41 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

As for the use of per note expression:
I found this one impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nq3Q4tHvHY

In a streamed discussion board from NAMM I learned that the sample/waveform for this sound is only some kilobytes of a string instrument and the rest is a granular onboard synth...

From tremolo to vibrato to per-note-pitch-changes and sound variation.
A real instrument has this basically built in, so it's mostly about depth, aliveness and non-dead-sound... :-)

Cheers,

Tom
KVRian
 
877 posts since 19 Aug, 2011
 

Postby BMoore; Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:06 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

So nothing really usefull nor an essential feature. Thanks.
The sun always shines on tv | http://soundcloud.com/bmoorebeats
KVRAF
 
2097 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin
 

Postby ThomasHelzle; Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:11 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

BMoore wrote:So nothing really usefull nor an essential feature. Thanks.


:clown: :hihi: :party:
KVRist
 
210 posts since 30 Jun, 2004

Postby NothanUmber; Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:20 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

As long as recording your keyboard playing is all you want to do it might be non essential for you. Others who play an Eigenharp, Continuum, Linnstrument, Seabord etc. or MIDI orchestrators who are not keen on opening a second track per violin just because the piece requires to play on two strings concurrently will have a different perspective.
KVRian
 
877 posts since 19 Aug, 2011
 

Postby BMoore; Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:27 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

NothanUmber wrote:As long as recording your keyboard playing is all you want to do it might be non essential for you. Others who play an Eigenharp, Continuum, Linnstrument, Seabord etc. or MIDI orchestrators who are not keen on opening a second track per violin just because the piece requires to play on two strings concurrently will have a different perspective.


So, case in point then.
The sun always shines on tv | http://soundcloud.com/bmoorebeats
KVRAF
 
1930 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:59 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

Yes....different strokes......makes the world go round :shrug:

Happy Musiking!
dsan
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
KVRAF
 
8617 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds
 

Postby pdxindy; Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:09 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

BMoore wrote:So nothing really usefull nor an essential feature. Thanks.


Exactly... unless, you know, you're a musician :hihi:
KVRAF
 
2097 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin
 

Postby ThomasHelzle; Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:15 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

Thanks to this thread I finally figured all this stuff out, created an interesting Poly-AT sound to play in Sonar with Alchemy, used my Gaffa-tape-sensitivity-enhanced MPD18 the first time with Poly AT and played for an hour or so.

It makes a difference.

For longer sounds, you can do quite a lot over time, hold one note (I was playing the pads with two fingers basically) and modulate for instance the filter and with the other hand play faster notes and give them other modulations. Feels very natural actually.
I think this will be a lot of fun in the future...
And while the MPD18 isn't really that good, it already gives an impression where some of those other controllers may go.

Thanks guys for tipping me over the threshold with this thread ;-)

Cheers,

Tom
KVRAF
 
8617 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds
 

Postby pdxindy; Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:24 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

ThomasHelzle wrote:Thanks to this thread I finally figured all this stuff out, created an interesting Poly-AT sound to play in Sonar with Alchemy, used my Gaffa-tape-sensitivity-enhanced MPD18 the first time with Poly AT and played for an hour or so.

It makes a difference.

For longer sounds, you can do quite a lot over time, hold one note (I was playing the pads with two fingers basically) and modulate for instance the filter and with the other hand play faster notes and give them other modulations. Feels very natural actually.
I think this will be a lot of fun in the future...
And while the MPD18 isn't really that good, it already gives an impression where some of those other controllers may go.

Thanks guys for tipping me over the threshold with this thread ;-)

Cheers,

Tom



Can you imagine where the guitar solo would be if bending one string bent all of them? or if you slid a finger up a whole note on one string and all strings also went up in pitch the same amount? Or a hammer on on one string and it happens on all strings? Or muting one string muted them all... A whole world of expressive playing would be lost.
KVRAF
 
2097 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin
 

Postby ThomasHelzle; Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:11 am Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

Exactly...
KVRian
 
877 posts since 19 Aug, 2011
 

Postby BMoore; Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:07 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

I can imagine a guitar solo, played on a guitar.
The sun always shines on tv | http://soundcloud.com/bmoorebeats
KVRAF
 
8617 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds
 

Postby pdxindy; Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:25 pm Re: Per note automation like in Bitwig studio also in Reaper

BMoore wrote:I can imagine a guitar solo, played on a guitar.


I'm very glad you were not on the development team for the CS-80 :hihi:
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)