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Bad Sci-fi

If it's not about music it belongs here! Please keep it civil and decent.... except - see below->

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KVRAF
 
2218 posts since 2 Jul, 2007, from Oxycontin Acres, Georgia, USA

Postby SODDI; Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:59 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

My problem with "Prometheus" is that they just tore up the mysterious back story that was implied in the first movie but only hinted at in some of the others and tacked on a kind of stale, fake and mostly stupid story about "The Engineers" - hey, they're humanoid and those Giger heads were just helmets all along. Bogus.

The thing about mysterious, un-spelled out back stories is that because they are left to each individual fan's own imagination, they build up a lot of mystique that is good for the franchise. Ask any Lovecraft fan.

Now the whole Aliens universe is explained and subsequent producers will get to etch their own indelible rot on it. Aren't you happier now that you know the Aliens' origin?
KVRAF
 
38438 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:13 am Re: Bad Sci-fi

Answer: NO! :lol:

That was one of the worst parts. They "created" us but they are total dicks about meeting us. F...k off! Please don't insult me that badly, they would have at least been interested. AND f...k off over the ability to just "pilot" their spaceship.......OMG, I'm reliving a bad moment :hihi:
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KVRAF
 
4445 posts since 13 Jan, 2003, from Kent, UK
 

Postby GaryG; Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:31 am Re: Bad Sci-fi

SODDI wrote:The thing about mysterious, un-spelled out back stories is that because they are left to each individual fan's own imagination, they build up a lot of mystique that is good for the franchise. Ask any Lovecraft fan.


So true. I had a couple of Giger books that I used to love browsing through, imagining what worlds/situations would lead to these images. No one could make a film that would do justice to those worlds and, more importantly, the feelings they conjured up. Trying to come up with an explanation or back story for one of his paintings is doomed to failure, like explaining a dream to someone and you just know you're losing the essence of it with every sentence. (well, I'd be interested in attempts to explain a 'Penis Landscape' painting. :hihi:)

Actually, that could be a problem I have with a lot of scifi, the book often doesn't live up to it's artwork. :)
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KVRAF
 
7266 posts since 20 Nov, 2003, from Lost and Spaced
  

Postby osiris; Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:38 am Re: Bad Sci-fi

The motive could have been more laid out.
The treatment I read, that was cut from the film, was Jesus was one of them, and they sent him here to bring humanity into a new age, and we killed him. That's what they were pissed about. So they decide to wipe out the human race.
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KVRAF
 
4445 posts since 13 Jan, 2003, from Kent, UK
 

Postby GaryG; Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:34 am Re: Bad Sci-fi

osiris wrote: The treatment I read, that was cut from the film, was Jesus was one of them, and they sent him here to bring humanity into a new age, and we killed him


I can't see them having any trouble at all with that storyline from Christian groups and the like, uh-uh.

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KVRAF
 
1590 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:19 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

SODDI wrote:My problem with "Prometheus" is that they just tore up the mysterious back story that was implied in the first movie but only hinted at in some of the others and tacked on a kind of stale, fake and mostly stupid story about "The Engineers" - hey, they're humanoid and those Giger heads were just helmets all along. Bogus.

The thing about mysterious, un-spelled out back stories is that because they are left to each individual fan's own imagination, they build up a lot of mystique that is good for the franchise. Ask any Lovecraft fan.

Now the whole Aliens universe is explained and subsequent producers will get to etch their own indelible rot on it. Aren't you happier now that you know the Aliens' origin?


The humanoid element completely undoes the whole point of Giger's non-human alien creature designs. It also puts an annoying extra pile of anthropocentrism into yet another scifi series. While bipedal upright creatures may be an evolutionary commonality in the universe, beings that look pretty much just like humans with funny coloring is so unbearably self-centered.

i hope the next movie presents a further "surprise twist" that shows us that the grey guys in Prometheus styled their helmets after actual creatures that they worship and serve, to undo this stupid "it was just a helmet" bullshit.

i don't mind mystique getting reduced by some explanation and exploration. i mind when it undoes the whole ethos of the previous creation.
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KVRian
 
1205 posts since 13 Jun, 2008, from Napier,New Zealand
   

Postby an-electric-heart; Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:43 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

I just think the Alien franchise was well and truly ruined with Alien Resurrection anyway... and if that didn't do it, Alien Vs Predator 2 certainly did.
I read somewhere that James Cameron wanted to make another Alien movie and had a short treatment for Alien 5 that would have stared Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sigourney Weaver, but at the time Fox were thinking about Alien Vs Predator, he said he thought AvP was a terrible idea and would only do his movie if they didn't make AvP... they went with Paul W S Anderson naturally, probably because a James Cameron movie would have cost them 500 million and a Paul W S Anderson movie would only cost about 50... I know what one I'd rather have seen.
And I'll just add, that David Giler (the producer of the original 79 Alien) has always wanted to see a "planet of the Alien" movie to explain where the space jockey in Alien came from, it would have been the direction Aliens went in had the technology been there to do it at the time, so in the end he kind of got that movie with Prometheus.
KVRAF
 
38438 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:06 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

But isn't there something about the first couple of "alien" films (and maybe even the third) that should leave to the imagination? I don't really want to know where the "aliens" came from. Destroys the mystique.

And let's be realistic, if you have a spaceship that large crash into the planet, it's gonna do more damage than that!

Again, it's number one on my "worst films" eva. They ruined the idea of "alien" with the BS. And one other thing, the old ratty space hunk style worked in "alien". The new cleaner more "modern" look in prometheus ruined that vibe.
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KVRian
 
1205 posts since 13 Jun, 2008, from Napier,New Zealand
   

Postby an-electric-heart; Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:57 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

There's a reasonable explanation for the space ships, the Nostromo from Alien is a beat up old piece of crap for moving ore, similar to a rusty old container ship, the ship from Prometheus... called "The Prometheus" is owned by an uber rich dude and is the equal to a luxury yacht.

But yeah, Prometheus isn't the best, but I think it's good... more good than it's bad anyway :ud: , it was certainly disappointing considering "Ridley's new Alien movie" doesn't really have Aliens in it (besides the one that bursts from the engineer awkwardly tacked on at the end... just to please the fans too obviously), and also, I actually thought the actors were pretty good, Fassbender was awesome in fact... Guy Pierce was unnecessary, it's like "Dude... just get an actual old guy" :lol:
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KVRian
 
742 posts since 26 Oct, 2007, from UK
  

Postby do_androids_dream; Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:05 am Re: Bad Sci-fi

Regarding the Alien franchise... There's clearly not much effort at continuity between those stories so i just judge them on their own merits. After the first two (untouchable sci fi of course) my current fav is A vs P 2 - very John Carpenter i thought. Kudos for one of the most unexpected and awesome movie deaths ever too!
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KVRist
 
435 posts since 11 Jul, 2006, from Fayetteville, GA

Postby MachFront; Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:54 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

As others have noted, I fully expected and was not let down that many films I love are being listed as things people think are horrid. :)

I have a great affection for things like Galaxy of Terror and Warrior of the Lost World, Nightflyers, Trancers and so on.

But bad doesn't equal good to me... I also hated The Happening (though I love Signs...like...a lot). I love Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
I can't stand 2001: A Space Odyssey but I love everything about 2010: The Year We Make Contact.
I was a huge fan of The Terminator then saw T2 in the theater and hated it. I liked T3 however and have yet to bother with Terminator: Salvation or whatever it was called.

I don't dig on modern bad movies, though. I think Event Horizon is pretty boring and not very imaginative.
I also haven't seen anything in any genre come out of Hollywood in general in the last decade or more that gave me anything stronger than a "Meh."

There's just something about those b-grade movies from the 70s and 80s. There's some real zing to them or something. More creativity (sometimes). Not being pretentious helps too.
It's not nostalgia for me. I'm enjoying them right now, not just fondly looking back through rose-tinted glasses and ignoring their flaws. I also don't place films outside of their context. (for example, judging special effects from a low-budget 70s film by today's standards)
"The last man on earth doesn't miss anyone at all." - Haujobb, Faith In Chaos
KVRAF
 
38438 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:10 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

Oh yeah, terminator salvation, please save yourself :hihi:
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KVRist
 
435 posts since 11 Jul, 2006, from Fayetteville, GA

Postby MachFront; Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:50 am Re: Bad Sci-fi

Late last night and the night before, Tommyknockers, Tommyknockers knockin' at my door.
"The last man on earth doesn't miss anyone at all." - Haujobb, Faith In Chaos
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KVRAF
 
2218 posts since 2 Jul, 2007, from Oxycontin Acres, Georgia, USA

Postby SODDI; Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:45 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

MachFront wrote:I have a great affection for things like Galaxy of Terror and Warrior of the Lost World, Nightflyers, Trancers and so on.


"Nightflyers" is a badly adapted George R.R. "Game of Thrones" Martin story. Just for interests sake.

As for the "Alien" franchise, try the short story "Black Destroyer" by A. E. van Vogt, in the collection "Voyage of the Space Beagle".

"At first glance, the alien Ixtl also appears to be an inspiration for the film Alien, though those involved with the film denied any influence on its part. However, when Van Vogt initiated a lawsuit against 20th Century Fox for plagiarism the studio settled out of court."
KVRAF
 
3428 posts since 19 Jan, 2008

Postby tapper mike; Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:12 pm Re: Bad Sci-fi

GaryG wrote:
osiris wrote: The treatment I read, that was cut from the film, was Jesus was one of them, and they sent him here to bring humanity into a new age, and we killed him


I can't see them having any trouble at all with that storyline from Christian groups and the like, uh-uh.

;)



Remembering when the original 'Star Wars' was released. Every televangelist on the planet was trying to draw correlations to the bible. The media sucked up to every bit of it.
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