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Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

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hibidy
KVRAF
 
42000 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:27 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

I'm glad to hear you like live. I really dig it.

Yeah, sonar is obviously a very good host for many people. More power to ya and I hope I'm wrong and things get sorted.

BTW, I like the midi in S1 fine. It's not perfect, but I can use it. w/o the crashing :hihi:

In reaper, I don't know if it's changed, but my issue was not being able to edit more than a clip at a time and things like "finger" extension crashing. In S1 for example, I can literally select EVERY clip (including audio) and quantize either to a groove, or whatever. That's really powerful for me.
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KevWestBeats
KVRian
 
652 posts since 27 Dec, 2011, from Seattle,WA, USA

Postby KevWestBeats; Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:27 am Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

If you can get beyond the whole Sonar is buggier than a roach motel thing then its actually a damn good DAW. I like it for midi. I used Sonar for about 7 years and dropped it when the X series came out. My favorite version was version 4 and 2 years ago when I got onto X1 it really screwed up my workflow because rewire didn't work right. Loop recording doesn't work right specially with rewire or with Maschine in Sonar. I was a heavy Reason user and I am a heavy Maschine user so for me I needed a DAW that worked right out the box with both that wasn't Sonar. I got tons of audio drop outs with my audio interface (Balance) but a lot of stuff doesn't work great with Balance for some reason but Sonar is about the worst of the worst in that regard. I think Balance might need some driver updates in that regard. Reaper is cool and its not that its bad at midi its just great at audio. My biggest problem with Reaper is that sometimes it takes 4 steps to do things that take one in other DAWs. It gives way too many options and because it gives those options some of them are buried in features imo. Sometimes simple things in Reaper just aren't always simple to do vs other DAWs but maybe that's because I don't think like the developers do. These were my recent thoughts as I have been working with both lately looking for a new DAW to team with my Maschine rig. Overall my thoughts on this discussion is have you considered Studio One?
pc2000
KVRist
 
81 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Postby pc2000; Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:11 am Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Kraznet wrote:My tests show that sonar X3 doesn't recognise the mouse wheel when controlling plug-ins.

With regard to the midi there were a couple of deal breakers for me.
If you set up a midi loop with auto quantize enabled. Then start layering up a drum beat. After recording for example the kick drum. When the loop returns the beginning the kick drops notes on playback. Which is pretty unhelpful if you want to start layering the snare on the next pass. You have to stop playback and restart for the kick to sound without dropping notes. her's a video I made showing the behaviour.
http://www.screencast.com/t/wk0bcP4KcrC4
Although I must emphasize this problem only arises when you have auto quantize enabled.

Another problem I encountered was with regard to looped midi recording. In Samplitude you can enable midi overdub mode.This means when you record several passes of midi all the midi is added to the one single midi object. In Sonar each pass creates its own separate object and they are stacked on top of each other. So you end up having to merge all the parts together afterwards which I find very inconvenient. So basically auto merge of midi in overdub mode doesn't exist. I contacted support a while back about both these issues. but nothing changed Sonar X3d.

Neither of these issues exist in Reaper.


I'm still not into Sonar, but I may have found a solution to the quantize bug. It appears that reducing the quantize strength to 93% or lower, seemingly solves the issue. The program is still using a percentage of legacy code/plug-ins, that's likely having some issues on newer machines. On the other hand, Music creator 5 doesn't have the quantize issue.

There are certain indicators that make it obvious. Kinetic has a plugin called groove synth that for some dumb reason... CW didn't want you to be able to use it in the Music creator versions. It always worked in the full Sonar versions. Although I have Sonar X1 producer, I bought Music creator 6 first. Why is it, that the groove synth still won't load even though it's a stripped down X1.

Surely, CW didn't go out of their way to write code for a legacy synth to still not be usable in the creator version!? The logical answer is that it's still just the old creator/Sonar base code with updated GUI components and other improvements.
pc2000
KVRist
 
81 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Postby pc2000; Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:21 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Maybe someone can confirm reducing the Q strength to 92% works better?
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EnGee
KVRian
 
1004 posts since 7 Oct, 2005, from Auckland

Postby EnGee; Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:22 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Yes, I can confirm that lowering the strength to 92% behaves normally and no note escaped in 1/16 setting (still I can't see them when looping of course, I need to stop first to see them). So this is a good workaround although Cakewalk is not pardoned for this bug.

Another thing is beginning to disturb me is when I push the Matrix hard (not very really, just a normal use!). What I mean is when clicking the clips not waiting for the circle to reach the half continuously, the playing begins to have some gaps between the clips.

I wish now that Cakewalk didn't abandon Project 5, but it is sooooooooooo late. Anyway, Bitwig seems to have many things from Project 5 and Live and looks very promising for Midi. The workflow is excellent as well.

For me, I think I will stop hoping that one day this will be fixed and that will be added in the future! I will just look around and see which one is 'ready' for my workflow and buy it. No more hopes and wasting money here and there!

I guess it would be between Bitwig, Live and Cubase for me in the near future if Cakewalk won't fix/enhance the mid/workflow and the same thing for Presonus in Studio One.
Kraznet
KVRian
 
711 posts since 11 Jun, 2004, from London

Postby Kraznet; Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:49 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Yes, I can confirm that lowering the strength to 92% behaves normally and no note escaped in 1/16 setting (still I can't see them when looping of course, I need to stop first to see them). So this is a good workaround although Cakewalk is not pardoned for this bug.


Yes I figured out that workaround a while back but obviously it should work when it's 100%.
My Samplitude/Sequoia Tutorials are here :
http://www.youtube.com/kraznet
keyman_sam
KVRAF
 
3406 posts since 7 Mar, 2005

Postby keyman_sam; Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:24 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Sonar was a blast for midi. Loop recording worked. Input-quantize worked. You could quantize from arranger. Groove quantize was there. Step recording worked. Each take went in its own lane without any empty lanes. You could record with confidence (none of this first note missing BS we see in reaper).

Can't say the same with Reaper. But then everything else is so great with Reaper, that one has to make this sacrifice. :(
Alesis Fusion 6HD for sale/trade - Pm me!

Sample Libraries for Shortcircuit
Jlien X
KVRist
 
195 posts since 2 Apr, 2011, from Tokyo

Postby Jlien X; Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:39 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Take Lanes in Sonar have some issues or design flaws in terms of MIDI. For example, even if you mute a clip or a lane itself, the muted clip still appears in the track when the lanes are collapsed. :?
SONAR X3e & Studio One Producer 2.6.2
C-note
KVRian
 
1481 posts since 2 Apr, 2006, from Studio City, California

Postby C-note; Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:51 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Why is it Sonar vs Reaper? I mean Reaper for midi? Should be Cubase, FL Studio, Live, Mixcraft or even Tracktion on the PC and of course Logic if you are on Mac
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
21641 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:17 am Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

C-note wrote:Why is it Sonar vs Reaper? I mean Reaper for midi? Should be Cubase, FL Studio, Live, Mixcraft or even Tracktion on the PC and of course Logic if you are on Mac


Read the first post; its because Sonar is the one he's evaluating.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
urlwolf
KVRist
 
226 posts since 23 Dec, 2002

Postby urlwolf; Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:37 am Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

Since then, I've given up on xonar.
I'm evaluating cubase elements. Quite happy with what I see, other than memory consumption. Can be had for 65 eur with a combo of buying a magazine and upgrading so about the price of reaper. I wonder if the limited number of tracks (48 audio, 24 instruments) is a show stopper. I think not, but I'm a beginner in audio production, so I may be wrong. I know that even 'simple' pop songs can use up to 130 tracks. Not sure I'll ever reach that state though.

Are the things we hear here in OSC for example made with that many tracks?
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EnGee
KVRian
 
1004 posts since 7 Oct, 2005, from Auckland

Postby EnGee; Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:13 am Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

urlwolf wrote:Since then, I've given up on xonar.
I'm evaluating cubase elements. Quite happy with what I see, other than memory consumption. Can be had for 65 eur with a combo of buying a magazine and upgrading so about the price of reaper. I wonder if the limited number of tracks (48 audio, 24 instruments) is a show stopper. I think not, but I'm a beginner in audio production, so I may be wrong. I know that even 'simple' pop songs can use up to 130 tracks. Not sure I'll ever reach that state though.

Are the things we hear here in OSC for example made with that many tracks?


130 tracks? in one song? :o

For me I don't think I can reach 16 tracks (including the drums!), but maybe because I'm old school in electronic music :borg:

Well, I still like Sonar a lot to be honest. The Basic edition has so much to offer, much more than Cubase elements. There is no limitation in Tracks (whatever they are) and it has midi effects which Cubase Elements doesn't have. The basic Sonar X3 also has Step sequencer and Matrix. The Piano roll is really very nice looking and inviting to put more notes 8)
To be fair to Sonar, I could work with the Matrix without a problem today. It needs some training time to get familiar with it.

In the end buy the one that you like more for your music. For me it is Live and Sonar (I can live with the bugs it has, they are not spoiling the good experience).
JoseC.
KVRist
 
233 posts since 14 Nov, 2005, from León, Spain

Postby JoseC.; Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:16 am Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

For me Sonar has been always the best for editing and sequencing midi. I use hardware synths and an Emu Command Station groovebox, and sync with Sonar of arps and sequencers with a MOTU midi interface is MUCH better than Live and Reaper. Live has improved as of Live 9, but I am so used to Sonar midi editing that beyond simple things Sonar wins, and the external synths integration (sysex, .ins files and so on) is so much better in Sonar that there is no real contest.

Reaper is so far behind in that area that, honestly, I quit trying, and I really spent time with it. I can crash Reaper quite easily just throwing live midi to it from several sources at the same time, jamming with arpeggiators on hold and sequences and if I try recording it, things end up all over the place while Sonar recording is very accurate.

As I said above, Live is getting better, and I've started using Max for Live for some external synth control and it looks promising, but overall it is Sonar X3 for me, that on top of all that is currently a VERY stable app.
Sonar X3d, Live 9, couple of laptops, an iPad, a handful of hardware synths, a bunch of soft ones, the usual key and pad controllers and some guitars. Oh, yes, and a harmonica or two...
C-note
KVRian
 
1481 posts since 2 Apr, 2006, from Studio City, California

Postby C-note; Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:58 pm Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

whyterabbyt wrote:
C-note wrote:Why is it Sonar vs Reaper? I mean Reaper for midi? Should be Cubase, FL Studio, Live, Mixcraft or even Tracktion on the PC and of course Logic if you are on Mac


Read the first post; its because Sonar is the one he's evaluating.

And he could be looking at more than those two as others have mentioned here, Live S1?
urlwolf
KVRist
 
226 posts since 23 Dec, 2002

Postby urlwolf; Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:57 am Re: Sonar X3 vs reaper for midi

I'm the OP. Leaning towards T5 now :) Evaluating S1. If cubase didn't have piss poor window management, it'd be my choice.
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