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Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Garrix.

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
Urs
u-he
 
17064 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:40 am Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

chk071 wrote:
Urs wrote:
aciddose wrote:The solution for audio software is reaching the point where it is no longer worth the effort of the cracker at the level of sophistication required to deal with it. Fortunately for us, this is quite low. Most crackers do what they do for fun and it is quite easy to make it no longer much fun.

That's exactly what I believe.

I'm still quite stunned about the amount of work you put in anti piracy measures. :o Would be a good idea to think about making it available for others too, as i can't imagine every developer being able and willing to put so much effort in it.

My passion to talk about it is much larger than the effort actually spent on coding things.

Back then, when Team AiR douched out with their premature Zebra keygen, I made the decision to make this a hobby of mine. Nevertheless, I deal with CP for a day or two whenever a crack comes out, no more no less. However, there's a bit of a thinktank around, and we came up with many concepts that I haven't even implemented yet, simply because there wasn't any necessity to do so.

But yes, sharing those concepts with other developers - not just on forum-post level, but with detailed description - would be the next level of the protection scheme itself.
User avatar
crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 17 Apr, 2001, from At the boundaries of time

Postby crimsonwarlock; Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:09 am Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

aciddose wrote:Of course it's related to the halting problem.

Explain....
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin

Using: Reaper and loads of freeware plugins
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
8978 posts since 7 Dec, 2004, from Vancouver, Canada

Postby aciddose; Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:13 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

The author[s] of IDA already explained it in quite some detail. You can find a lot of information about the halting problem described by Alan Turing in the 1930s.

TLDR; If they were to implement one method of identifying code it is absolutely certain to have false positives. If they implement a solution for the false positives it will no longer identify some of the previously identified code. Et cetera.

It can be reduced to the halting problem, which we have a proof is unsolvable since Alan Turing published it.
User avatar
crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 17 Apr, 2001, from At the boundaries of time

Postby crimsonwarlock; Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:51 am Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

aciddose wrote:The author[s] of IDA already explained it in quite some detail. You can find a lot of information about the halting problem described by Alan Turing in the 1930s.

I'm working in AI research (and development) so I'm aware of what it is and who came up with it (Turing is one of my heroes for obvious reasons). I've read his papers, and also read most of the significant papers opposing his ideas (and many agreeing to his ideas).

aciddose wrote:TLDR; If they were to implement one method of identifying code it is absolutely certain to have false positives. If they implement a solution for the false positives it will no longer identify some of the previously identified code. Et cetera.

It can be reduced to the halting problem, which we have a proof is unsolvable since Alan Turing published it.

I asked, because throwing in something like the halting problem into this discussion seems pretty irrelevant to it. The halting problem itself has been deemed irrelevant in many computational areas (although this can be, and is widely, debated), especially as we are now moving into the design of 'complex systems' (also known as 'bizarre' systems), where the question of predictability is totally irrelevant to begin with.

As a side note, and within the scope of this topic, a 'complex system' could actually create a uncrackable system, simply because it's state (at any moment) can not be mathematically predicted ;)

You seem to like to flaunt your knowledge, but posting things like this just makes you look like a know-it-all. Now, if you had mentioned 'P versus NP' in relation to CP, that would have been somewhat relevant (but still probably way out of the comfort zone for most participants in this discussion).
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin

Using: Reaper and loads of freeware plugins
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
8978 posts since 7 Dec, 2004, from Vancouver, Canada

Postby aciddose; Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:18 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

So what would be the point? It is related to the halting problem, it is the very same problem. Saying anything else would be really "flaunting knowledge" as it would serve no other purpose.

Looking up "what the heck is the halting problem?" will take anyone five minutes of reading and they'll understand why it is impossible to reliably detect stub functions.

The missing bit of info is exactly how IDA detects functions, which is proprietary. I do know however that it relies heavily upon alignment, stack push/pop and return opcodes, which stub functions do not contain.
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6293 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:38 am Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

I cannot believe you guys have been arguing about this for 20 pages when in the same edition is an inteview with Ulrich Schnauss, and his absolute droolworthy collection of gear. :love:
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
t3toooo
KVRian
 
1449 posts since 24 Dec, 2005

Postby t3toooo; Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:48 am Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

Mushy Mushy wrote:I cannot believe you guys have been arguing about this for 20 pages when in the same edition is an inteview with Ulrich Schnauss, and his absolute droolworthy collection of gear. :love:



yeah too bad,i won't read anything from this rotten magazine anymore,this assholes don't care either,LOL.
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3016 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:40 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

Well, the idea that a thread like this is kept alive be continued regular high profile 'offenses' is just ridiculous.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33535 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:55 am Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

Mushy Mushy wrote:I cannot believe you guys have been arguing about this for 20 pages when in the same edition is an inteview with Ulrich Schnauss, and his absolute droolworthy collection of gear. :love:



is there a video?
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6293 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:28 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

vurt wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:I cannot believe you guys have been arguing about this for 20 pages when in the same edition is an inteview with Ulrich Schnauss, and his absolute droolworthy collection of gear. :love:



is there a video?

There is. And it's maaaaaadness.
Can't find it on YouTube though :(
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
User avatar
Sendy
KVRAF
 
4376 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Postby Sendy; Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:37 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

crimsonwarlock wrote:
aciddose wrote:Of course it's related to the halting problem.

Explain....


Heard that in a dalek voice :hihi:
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp!
User avatar
aciddose
KVRAF
 
8978 posts since 7 Dec, 2004, from Vancouver, Canada

Postby aciddose; Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:07 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Garrix.

Explaininate?
User avatar
The_Hidden_Goose
KVRian
 
746 posts since 8 Dec, 2003, from Birmingham-ish, UK (Tamworth, but shhh!)

Postby The_Hidden_Goose; Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:17 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Garrix.

If it takes a week each day to walk a fortnight, the number of apples in a bunch of grapes is a banana the size of green.
Delfinoverde
Banned

Postby Delfinoverde; Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:39 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Gar

Urs wrote:[ I agree that no copy protection is perfect. We're sure that one day someone will come and find a way to crack our latest without triggering any suspicion on the time bombs…


You seem to underestimate the knowledge & power of some reverse engineers out there! :hihi: You can study some of their clips even on YouTube. Be sure, if one of those extraordinary skilled men decides to crack your stuff you can't do nothing against it except implementing new protections in the next builds.

One thing that might save you from direct attacks is: You're a small developer. So they might feel sorry for you and let you go. It's like in nature: the big sharks come when they detect a big prey!
User avatar
Sendy
KVRAF
 
4376 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Postby Sendy; Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:52 pm Re: Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Garrix.

All hail the crackers and their omnipotent and infinite skill, mercy and grace! :hihi:
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp!
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