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One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:41 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

e@rs wrote:We agree that the difference in quality between commercial and free plugins is small, so why they shouldn't be allowed?

8) Touché, but there's still a gap obviously. Maybe it's a bit like freeware synths compared to commercial ones. Of course the rule is to level between the haves and have-nots, compounded by the fact the have-nots already have a major handicap with poor computers etc. A nice plugin workflow is nothing to a stuttering overheating old computer with cheap sound card drivers etc. Bouncing, hair-pulling .. I think we've all been there. Freeing the haves to use their favorite plugins will just add to this gap.
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idfpower
KVRian
 
1106 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Postby idfpower; Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:04 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

V'ger wrote:A nice plugin workflow is nothing to a stuttering overheating old computer with cheap sound card drivers etc. Bouncing, hair-pulling .. I think we've all been there. Freeing the haves to use their favorite plugins will just add to this gap.


He, he, so true ;) I had to bounce all tracks for my OSC 60 entry 'cause after 5-6 instances the synth/DAW started acting strange and never recovered :) I'd rather use various 3rd party effects 'cause I like 'em better, but I'm forced to stick to mostly DAW's natives 'cause they have the smallest CPU appetite; so yeah, if you're working on an old PC it's a pain in the rear to finish a song :) But well worth the effort :)
ANIMEHAUS & TELURICA - "The Spirited Fate Incident" - OUT NOW (FREE): https://animehaus.bandcamp.com/album/th ... e-incident

telurica.eu5.org
e@rs
KVRist
 
483 posts since 15 Dec, 2011, from Bucharest, Romania

Postby e@rs; Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:27 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

V'ger wrote:Touché, but there's still a gap obviously. Maybe it's a bit like freeware synths compared to commercial ones. Of course the rule is to level between the haves and have-nots, compounded by the fact the have-nots already have a major handicap with poor computers etc. A nice plugin workflow is nothing to a stuttering overheating old computer with cheap sound card drivers etc. Bouncing, hair-pulling .. I think we've all been there. Freeing the haves to use their favorite plugins will just add to this gap.

I see this gap you're talking about. It's reflected in the submissions quality. But I honestly belive it's there because of the human in front of the screen not because of the plugins he uses. And I haven't yet come across a (paid) plugin that any ignorant just inserts and then stunning, almost magic stuff comes out.

I'm not trying to be rude, offensive or disrespectful, it's not my intention, but when you chosed high CPU usage synths like Aalto, Alchemy or Diva for OSCs, the poor guy with slow computer and crap drivers didn't exist? I have a 6 years old mid-range computer and I own a few commercial effects, nothing ridiculously fancy or expensive. Apart from those intended for mastering (with high CPU usage and major latency), I can run all of them in more instances then needed in a project on my modest system.
Last edited by e@rs on Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
e@rs
KVRist
 
483 posts since 15 Dec, 2011, from Bucharest, Romania

Postby e@rs; Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:31 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

idfpower wrote:I had to bounce all tracks for my OSC 60 entry 'cause after 5-6 instances the synth/DAW started acting strange and never recovered

It's because of the commercial effects you used. Never do that again. :dog:
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idfpower
KVRian
 
1106 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Postby idfpower; Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:08 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

e@rs wrote:It's because of the commercial effects you used. Never do that again. :dog:


Ha ha, you're right :) I've bounced everything from FL Studio into Adobe Audition 3 - which is freeware now - applied a bunch of freebie effects and voila, problem solved ;) Too bad there's no better free alternative to FL's sequencer/piano roll... such great time savers and dead easy to use ;)
ANIMEHAUS & TELURICA - "The Spirited Fate Incident" - OUT NOW (FREE): https://animehaus.bandcamp.com/album/th ... e-incident

telurica.eu5.org
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:18 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

e@rs wrote:I'm not trying to be rude, offensive or disrespectful, it's not my intention, but when you chosed high CPU usage synths like Aalto, Alchemy or Diva for OSCs, the poor guy with slow computer and crap drivers didn't exist? I have a 6 years old mid-range computer and I own a few commercial effects, nothing ridiculously fancy or expensive. Apart from those intended for mastering (with high CPU usage and major latency), I can run all of them in more instances then needed in a project on my modest system.

Another good point, but synths are not chosen only for their CPU usage obviously, just as the freeware vs. commercial effects is not a matter of CPU usage either. We all accept that there will always be a difference between people's systems and economic situations and that this is not the deciding factor in this competition which is why there is a mix of synths both CPU wise and freeware/commercial. The point was simply that if the difference between commercial and free effects is so small, there exists an argument for minimizing the advantage gap if the benefit is anyway minimal (workflow oriented).
Last edited by V'ger on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:20 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

e@rs wrote:
idfpower wrote:I had to bounce all tracks for my OSC 60 entry 'cause after 5-6 instances the synth/DAW started acting strange and never recovered

It's because of the commercial effects you used. Never do that again. :dog:

Eh? Has anyone said commercial effect plugins use more CPU? :roll:
e@rs
KVRist
 
483 posts since 15 Dec, 2011, from Bucharest, Romania

Postby e@rs; Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:11 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Hope not. I was trying to be funny / annoy idfpower because he's so against them. :oops:
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idfpower
KVRian
 
1106 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Postby idfpower; Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:33 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

e@rs wrote:Hope not. I was trying to be funny / annoy idfpower because he's so against them. :oops:


For the record: I'm not against commercial plugins, I'm against using commercial plugins in OSC, that's all :lol:
ANIMEHAUS & TELURICA - "The Spirited Fate Incident" - OUT NOW (FREE): https://animehaus.bandcamp.com/album/th ... e-incident

telurica.eu5.org
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Of course this matter will be decided by vote as with most major rules issues so there's no need to convince anybody but for the sake of argument I'll turn this around:

Do you think commercial plugins have an advantage over freeware or is the whole business based on a falsehood?

Do you think all OSCers would have the same means to access the same level of commercial plugins?

If you agree commercial have an advantage, and that there will always be a geographical or other circumstantial situation (no fault of their own) that will make a difference to contestant's level of commercial plugin ownership and usage; do you then think that allowing them is fair or sporting in a competition?
e@rs
KVRist
 
483 posts since 15 Dec, 2011, from Bucharest, Romania

Postby e@rs; Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:45 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

V'ger wrote:Of course this matter will be decided by vote as with most major rules issues so there's no need to convince anybody

Fair enough.

V'ger wrote:Do you think commercial plugins have an advantage over freeware or is the whole business based on a falsehood?

Sonically, IMHO they have, but is not huge. And they have better GUIs. And better support. And if you reached for your wallet to get them you're more motivated to learn them. And you feel better simply because you use paid plugins, not like those guys at OSC that are limited to free ones. :lol:

V'ger wrote:Do you think all OSCers would have the same means to access the same level of commercial plugins?

Definetely not. But everyone will bring what they could afford and love.

V'ger wrote:If you agree commercial have an advantage, and that there will always be a geographical or other circumstantial situation (no fault of their own) that will make a difference to contestant's level of commercial plugin ownership and usage; do you then think that allowing them is fair or sporting in a competition?

Everybody uses a different DAW (and it's effects), so it's not fair from the start.
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satYatunes
KVRAF
 
1549 posts since 22 Aug, 2006, from Charlotte

Postby satYatunes; Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:38 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Interesting debate.. looks like either we are going to get to use the commercial effects plugins or lose the DAW effects use :-D
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
2488 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:46 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

e@rs wrote:Everybody uses a different DAW (and it's effects), so it's not fair from the start.


I haven't really been paying attention because of time pressures but did that change? Back ye olden dayze DAW effects were only allowed if they were available to all – which basically limited that option to Reaper if you were going to use DAW effects. I can remember having to hunt down a bunch of free substitutes for pretty much everything in the older competitions, including EQ.
No longer blank as Frank
Soundcloud
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idfpower
KVRian
 
1106 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Postby idfpower; Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:51 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Gamma-UT wrote:I haven't really been paying attention because of time pressures but did that change?


Yup: DAW effects are (now) allowed.
ANIMEHAUS & TELURICA - "The Spirited Fate Incident" - OUT NOW (FREE): https://animehaus.bandcamp.com/album/th ... e-incident

telurica.eu5.org
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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
 
1806 posts since 17 Apr, 2001, from At the boundaries of time

Postby crimsonwarlock; Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:54 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

satYatunes wrote:looks like either we are going to get to use the commercial effects plugins or lose the DAW effects use :-D

... or not :D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin

Using: Reaper and loads of freeware plugins
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