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Logic Pro X first note latency

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

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Graham S
KVRer
 
16 posts since 12 Dec, 2013

Postby Graham S; Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:00 pm Logic Pro X first note latency

When I press record, the first note I play on a virtual instrument is almost always delayed, no matter how long I wait after pressing record. After stopping playback, I trigger a note on the keyboard and once again, the first note I play is either unheard or only partially heard. What is causing this, and how do I stop it? I use a 2012 Mac mini quadcore server with 16gb ram, 1 internal 480gb ssd and 1 internal 1tb sshd. Almost all virtual instruments are being hosted in vienna ensemble pro 5 with no external slave computer. My buffer setting in Logic Pro x is 512, with a 2 buffer setting on every vienna ensemble instance.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9584 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:14 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

Well, I don't know how long the delay is, but I would experience considerable latency at 512 buffers, I mean to the extent it is noticably a *delay*.

For instance if I need to do drumming that lands on the timeline accurately I want to take my buffers down to 64 and set my VE Pro buffer (at least for that instance) at 0. I can blame Cubase under OSX for some of this, but latency is to be expected with this much buffering.

I don't know about un- or partially heard, it could be something with Logic I don't know about, though.
Graham S
KVRer
 
16 posts since 12 Dec, 2013

Postby Graham S; Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:26 am Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

But the delay is only on the first note, and it's actually even more prevalent when I turn the buffer down. It's kind of a click in or popping sound that only occurs with the first note.
SirkusPi
KVRist
 
43 posts since 14 Aug, 2012

Postby SirkusPi; Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:57 am Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

I've noticed something similar on Logic X, although it's not really the first note I hit after pressing "record," but the first note I hit when I use a new virtual instrument (regardless of whether I'm recording). That is, when I first create or switch to a new instrument, the first note I hit is delayed; after that, it works fine, regardless of whether I'm recording or not.

So for me, the workaround is pretty simple; just make sure I hit a note before hitting 'record,' and everything works fine. (Although it is still annoying, hopefully it will be fixed in the next update.) Is your issue specific to recording, or might this help you too?
Graham S
KVRer
 
16 posts since 12 Dec, 2013

Postby Graham S; Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:22 am Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

Yeah i'm pretty sure my situation is the exact same as yours. It doesn't happen just after pressing record, but anytime I go to a new instrument I haven't used in a while, or even the same instrument I've been using after having stopped playback. I already loaded the instruments in kontakt etc, so the hard drive is no longer responsible for the samples being played after loading (or is it? - correct me if I'm wrong).

I've also been doing the same workaround of hitting a note to get that initial delayed note out of the way, but I was hoping there might be something that could be done so that you and I don't have to do that anymore, as it is kind of annoying.
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9584 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:37 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

Sometimes I have samples that appear to need a wakeup before they're right.
As far as the hard drive being charged, streaming is streaming from the hard drive, 'DFD' vs 'sampler' in kontakt and the load buffer addresses how much but I don't know how this figures in.

There is something in Logic regarding 0 vs 1 as far as starting point but i have not encountered it, my use of Logic was not mission-critical ever.
Graham S
KVRer
 
16 posts since 12 Dec, 2013

Postby Graham S; Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:56 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

"There is something in Logic regarding 0 vs 1 as far as starting point"

-- ^^ what do you mean by that?
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9584 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:09 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

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Image
Graham S
KVRer
 
16 posts since 12 Dec, 2013

Postby Graham S; Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:30 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

Ok thanks, but my starting point isn't affecting the delay in the samples when I play the first note. That happens regardless of where I am in the project. What is DFD? So is the hard drive responsible for how the samples are being played back, or is it just responsible for loading the instruments?
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9584 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:41 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

DFD is Direct From Disk; here the default header or buffer loaded into RAM is 60kb. With a SSD you can go lower. If your instrument is working from 'sampler' it's all RAM, or the other things, time machine etc do not use the DFD either.

http://www.kontakttutorials.com/kontakt ... ntakt-dfd/

'the first part [of the sample] is played from RAM but the rest is streamed from [] disk'

Before Nemesys, more or less Gigastudio, using samples meant using RAM per se. It was patented technology then, I don't know what freed that up exactly. There is a thread here devoted to this kind of stuff if you're interested, I don't know to what extent it addresses what's happening with you but in answer to your 'so the hard drive is no longer responsible', well if DFD is selected, and in most cases it is, it is.
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9584 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:42 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

"Optimizing Your Kontakt Workflow, Pt2 - CPU, DFD, multicore"

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=401565

You're not having the samples on the same drive as the OS are you? I don't know about SSD and there is disagreement in what I've read, but I wouldn't do it anyway, just out of custom.
Graham S
KVRer
 
16 posts since 12 Dec, 2013

Postby Graham S; Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:04 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

Thanks. No, the samples were coming from the hybrid drive, which is more than 5x faster than a regular drive, so I'm confused why the first note I play gets delayed after pressing record in spite of that.
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9584 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:13 pm Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

maybe it's Logic X weirdness.
User avatar
spaceman
KVRAF
 
8175 posts since 9 Jan, 2004, from leroyaumeuni

Postby spaceman; Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:33 am Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

Logic knows that the first note is always shit, so it discards it for you.
My other host is Bruce Forsyth
TheoM
KVRAF
 
19214 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:44 am Re: Logic Pro X first note latency

Graham S wrote:But the delay is only on the first note, and it's actually even more prevalent when I turn the buffer down. It's kind of a click in or popping sound that only occurs with the first note.



I think it much be a ve pro and logic thing. Sorry I can't be of more help.

The only time I've ever had a problem with first note in Logic Pro is when I am using the computer keyboard to play on the laptop. Therefore when I launch logic I immediately open an instrument, any one, and hit a note on the keyboard, then the issue never happens again.

EDIT I think I need to explain this better. What I mean is if I am drawing notes using the mouse, there is latency, unless I open an instrument GUI, highlight the track so logic is in live mode, and press a note with the keyboard. It then seems to "trigger something" that makes sure it works as intended, always, until I close logic again.

Obviously there is something related to this going on but it's persisting for you but with a proper midi kb and ve pro. This is why I think simply by logical deduction it has to be something in the way logic interfaces with ve pro. Honestly I've used logic for ever myself but I use it to host instruments (especially in version x it's very efficient) and I work at no more than 128 buffer with small safety buffer I preferences, and on the iMac I can comfortably work at 64 buffer for an entire song, or 32 for a song up to about 60% spread core load. I've always found it incredibly efficient and reliable.

Could you humour me and try the process without VE pro and tell me what happens?
Last edited by TheoM on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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