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Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

NAD
KVRian
 
1041 posts since 28 Jan, 2004

Postby NAD; Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:08 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Shaloxeroligon wrote:Without going into too much detail, I know how to create an FM growl bass in Sytrus. You modulate (as in, apply the waveform of one to the other) a sine wave with a triangle wave and a high-frequency sine wave, and then automate the modulation amount of the triangle wave.

I would be very interested for you too please go into more detail!
KVRist
 
340 posts since 20 Sep, 2013, from Poland

Postby DSmolken; Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:20 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

fluffy_little_something wrote:Terrible, but if that is growl, hm, sounds a bit like a formant filter to me.

It does sound a bit like a formant filter, but I think it often isn't filtering emphasizing a particular frequency and then another, but the actual partials being synthesized spreading further apart because the ratio between them is increasing? Modulating frequency ratios in an FM synth would do that.
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Shaloxeroligon; Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:15 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Here, this guy explains it much better than I could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PVQdYq ... 318383DAE0
KVRAF
 
2176 posts since 18 Oct, 2010, from Texas
 

Postby ntom; Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:46 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Hey thanks, Shaloxeksajdf;lkhja (I gave up)
That was an awesome video, very helpful and has made me more interested in FM synthesis, which now makes me interested in this topic, and am hoping that a freeware FM synthesizer comes up. because, PFFFT, I'm not paying $180 for Sytrus! It's good, but not that good.



But I'm also a cheap ass :hihi:
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2866 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:38 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

ntom wrote:Hey thanks, Shaloxeksajdf;lkhja (I gave up)
That was an awesome video, very helpful and has made me more interested in FM synthesis, which now makes me interested in this topic, and am hoping that a freeware FM synthesizer comes up. because, PFFFT, I'm not paying $180 for Sytrus! It's good, but not that good.



But I'm also a cheap ass :hihi:


Try these:
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2011/09 ... u-plugins/
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Shaloxeroligon; Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:59 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

That site is where I started. I've already tried a few of them, and I wanted to see if anyone else had better luck than I before I went through and tested them all myself. I mean, I'm totally fine with doing my own research, but I like not reinventing the wheel if I don't have to.
KVRist
 
190 posts since 5 Nov, 2010

Postby Cuauhtli; Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:56 pm Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

ntom wrote:Hey thanks, Shaloxeksajdf;lkhja (I gave up)
That was an awesome video, very helpful and has made me more interested in FM synthesis, which now makes me interested in this topic, and am hoping that a freeware FM synthesizer comes up. because, PFFFT, I'm not paying $180 for Sytrus! It's good, but not that good.



But I'm also a cheap ass :hihi:


Should've gotten Sytrus when it was on sale ($40?).

Anyway, I'd forgotten about Ganymed and Vivaldi. Check them out at:
http://blog.jewe.org/?p=675#ganymed
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson
KVRian
 
1117 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Postby Ah_Dziz; Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:55 pm Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

after watching that video and reading about what you are trying to achieve I can think of a couple of reasons you may be having trouble:


firstly the behavior of sytrus which makes the guy use a triangle wave instead of a sine seems to be a bug in that it is behaving as a square wave and not a sine wave as you can clearly hear from his video. So I would suggest you try a square wave instead of a triangle for your high frequency modulator if you are looking for that sound, but any harmonically rich modulator should work which brings me to my next point.

The strange vowel like movement of partials in these sounds you are trying to make is acheived most easily by internal aliasing in the fm engine. The old Yamaha fm synths (and also later synths of theirs) had insane amounts of aliasing which would cause a fold back into the audible spectrum of frequencies that have risen past the nyquist frequency of your synth. Many newer synths have used neat programming tricks to cut down on or eliminate aliasing internally in their oscillators and that makes the sound you are going for harder to obtain without using a sample rate reducer somewhere in your signal path. These types of sounds can be created by sending any thing with lots of high frequency harmonic movement through a sample rate reducer. Try hard sync'd or distorted resonant sounds with high cutoffs through any run of the mill sample rate reducer and you will hear those same types of vowel like modulations going on.

Hopefully that helps you move in the right direction. I just wanted to point out that the info in the video posted was incorrect in many ways and didn't address where the sound you want actually comes from.

ps sorry for all the typos that are probably in this post.

JJ
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Shaloxeroligon; Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:56 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

That's very helpful, actually. I generally know how vowel formants work, but I didn't know that this process in Sytrus was a result of aliasing. And now that you explain it, it makes sense, because I believe Sytrus was based on an old Yamaha synthesizer. Not 100% sure.

Anyway, I will try your method to see how it works. Thanks for the feedback.
KVRAF
 
6606 posts since 20 Jun, 2004, from Secret Underground Hideout
 

Postby androidlove; Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:38 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Ah_Dziz wrote:These types of sounds can be created by sending any thing with lots of high frequency harmonic movement through a sample rate reducer.

I have trouble bringing the quality back afterwards.

It seems like someone here would take advantage of this gap in low cost synths and make a dedicated growl synth for us. While you're at it, could you make a thick zapper too? I have fun chaining stuff together and trying to break things, but I'd rather have something that works out of the box.
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest
KVRer
 
16 posts since 16 Apr, 2012

Postby ninjamode; Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:04 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Did something like this a long time ago with one of my synths (though the synth was in embarrassingly early stages)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61DjnkqRJo
if you really want a free way of creating a decent growl then use some rough distortion like fruity waveshaper on any basic synth, layer a lot and add different fx on each layer (eq carefully too). The synth doesnt matter you can create the sound you want using fx, routing, layering etc.
EDIT: Synthmaster CM, Curve CM & Zebralette are capable of making growls just by using the synths alone (incase you prefer purely synthing things out)
KVRer
 
6 posts since 23 Nov, 2010, from Victoria BC

Postby Dozr; Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:40 pm Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Try saw osc with a square osc 1 octave lower. Add a notch filter and smash it with a bitcrusher and other distorition (camel crush is free). Mess around with a bandpass filter modulated on top (LFO Tool is the best IMO). Usually I do this with an expensive synth, but it should work with almost anything I would think. Refine the elements and I'm sure you can get a decent result.
User avatar
KVRian
 
829 posts since 7 Oct, 2005, from Auckland

Postby EnGee; Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:14 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

The best free digital synth for such sounds IMO is Carbon 2, but you need to install the free Reaktor player then the free Reaktor Factory Selection.

Reaktor synths are unrivalled in this field. For me it is much easier and faster to get the sound I want from these synths.

Sometimes, I need a monster's sound or a scary voice and Razor/Prism/Massive (ok this is not a Reaktor one :hihi: ) are the commercial ones that I like for any digital sound, but I also highly recommend Carbon 2. I can easily buy it for $50!! It is really a powerful synth :borg:
KVRian
 
647 posts since 30 Aug, 2011, from somewhere in universe
 

Postby Loki Fuego; Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:22 am Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Apply low pass filter with cutoff modulated (sync it to 1/4 or 1/8) from 50 to 400Hz with resonance cranked up high (around 50%) to a saw wave (or any harmonically rich sound.Then run it through sample rate reducer (mda Degrade should be enough in its default state). To smooth any unwanted artifacts, apply chorus at the end. For more fun automate filter cutoff modulation rate.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
KVRAF
 
6606 posts since 20 Jun, 2004, from Secret Underground Hideout
 

Postby androidlove; Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:51 pm Re: Creating a growl bass WITHOUT using Sytrus or FM8

Alchemy just put out a free mini version of Dance & Trance that will load into Alchemy Player. The patch SubMinimal can do a talking bass. In the track below, I moved the remix pads around 3, 4, 7, and 8. I ran the bass through scuzzphut6, dfx Buffer Override stereo, Baxxpander, and YOU WA SHOCK. I mixed dfx Buffer Override 50/50 just for the lo-fi, but this plug does other neat things.

Open this in another window.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/t0n69jn ... y+Bass.mp3
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest
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