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Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

knowix
KVRist
 
97 posts since 12 Nov, 2011

Postby knowix; Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:29 am Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

To be honest, I think people just like old layout for purely aesthetic reasons. The composition is just prettier. Function should win out though.
Mogular
KVRist
 
204 posts since 30 May, 2005

Postby Mogular; Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:36 am Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

Nope, not for me at least. The new gui is amazing in what it is presenting functionally. I can see how Andy has streamlined functionality and made certain aspects more accessible and more logically grouped than it was before. It's presentation though is very much lacking the very careful and solid feeling that the beta gui has. Spacing might seem like a tiny detail but it has a huge effect on how we intuitively perceive an interface as being relaxed and understandable as opposed to being tight and claustrophobic.
My hope is that Andy's screenshots are still only early drafts and will undergo some decent polishing before its all finalized.
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Aloysius
KVRAF
 
11030 posts since 11 Aug, 2008, from Alto Icon

Postby Aloysius; Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:49 am Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

knowix wrote:To be honest, I think people just like old layout for purely aesthetic reasons. The composition is just prettier. Function should win out though.


I see your point. However, I'd much rather have a good looking girlfriend that a butt ugly one. I'm sure others agree that looks do count for something.
I feel like Buddha Holly
Breeze
KVRAF
 
1704 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:48 am Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

Aloysius wrote:I see your point. However, I'd much rather have a good looking girlfriend that a butt ugly one. I'm sure others agree that looks do count for something.

Good luck with that... ;)
renderful
KVRer
 
24 posts since 26 Nov, 2006

Postby renderful; Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:18 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

Frantz wrote:@Andy: I'm glad you are adding visualizations. It will be a lot more user friendly.

I wonder if you considered moving away from knobs and buttons. It seems like you are designing a user interface for a piece of hardware instead of software.

For example, look at the similar FilterStation* by Audio Damage. You can adjust the Filter and Resonance together for either filter by dragging on the "1" or "2". Or you can adjust the Filter and Resonance for both filters simultaneously by dragging on the box that connects "1" and "2". You can also drag the numbers directly to make adjustments. I think the FilterStation GUI is quicker to work with because it is optimized for mouse control.

Image

* Yes, I know FilterStation is simpler and the analog modeling is much cruder than The Drop.


I couldn't agree more.

That graph section is so useful for the ability to control cutoff and resonance at the same time, with a mouse. I use Filterstation when all I have is a laptop with me. The Drop only works for me when I have a controller(or want UBER sound quality).
Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
 
3770 posts since 15 Aug, 2006

Postby Funkybot's Evil Twin; Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:23 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

sonicpowa wrote:How about just combining the graphics blocks from the beta and the layout of the new.. just rearranging? The beta looks more like a real equipment to me.


There's nothing really wrong with the new GUI, however I have to agree with the above. I prefer the knobs, buttons, color scheme and texture on the beta. I like that it looks like a render,
Colonel Flashback
KVRian
 
774 posts since 12 Feb, 2005, from the Houmfort

Postby Colonel Flashback; Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:54 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

+1 for being able to change cutoff and res with a mouse at the same time
xiphiuz
KVRist
 
82 posts since 10 Apr, 2002

Postby xiphiuz; Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:42 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

Hi Andy,

The visual feedback screen aside, I would say that I liked the older GUI more than the new one. For me that one of the current beta just oozes class.
But what the heck, its the sound that counts ;-)
andy-cytomic
KVRian
 
1463 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Postby andy-cytomic; Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:53 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

It is easy enough to add support for moving the both cutoffs and res at once on the visualiser for all those people that use their mouse all the time. When moving both cutoffs via the visualiser like this should the "shift" knob be moved or both cutoff knobs? Are people even aware there is an "shift" knob that moves both cutoffs at once?
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com
Synth Squad - www.fxpansion.com
andy-cytomic
KVRian
 
1463 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Postby andy-cytomic; Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:59 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

knowix wrote:To be honest, I think people just like old layout for purely aesthetic reasons. The composition is just prettier. Function should win out though.


I did spend a long time on the geometry of the old layout, which for me made loads of sense in terms of grouping and aesthetics. Unfortunately it completely lost lots of people and they found it really confusing and complicated to understand just by looking at it what was going on.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com
Synth Squad - www.fxpansion.com
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Frantz
KVRAF
 
2702 posts since 18 Jul, 2008, from New York

Postby Frantz; Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:24 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

andy-cytomic wrote:It is easy enough to add support for moving the both cutoffs and res at once on the visualiser for all those people that use their mouse all the time. When moving both cutoffs via the visualiser like this should the "shift" knob be moved or both cutoff knobs? Are people even aware there is an "shift" knob that moves both cutoffs at once?


Thanks for considering this Andy. Keeping the knobs and allowing people to interact with the visualizer would be a great compromise. This is what FabFilter have done with Timeless2 (below) which has both knobs and a visualizer you can interact with.

For the Drop, I suggest that 3 adjustable dots appear when the mouse moves over the visualizer. In Timeless2, when you drag the infinity dot, you are adjusting both cutoffs and resonances simultaneously. I think this would be more obvious than involving the Shift key. I wasn't aware that the Shift key linked the filters.

Image
Fragile Gods: SoundCloud | Facebook
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Frantz
KVRAF
 
2702 posts since 18 Jul, 2008, from New York

Postby Frantz; Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:34 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

andy-cytomic wrote:I did spend a long time on the geometry of the old layout, which for me made loads of sense in terms of grouping and aesthetics. Unfortunately it completely lost lots of people and they found it really confusing and complicated to understand just by looking at it what was going on.


Count me in the confused group. With FilterStation*, I can throw it on a track and get a basic filtering effect including LFO modulation in seconds. With The Drop, I have to take off my musician hat and put on my engineering hat and think about how to get a particular LFO shape. Instead of picking Triangle/Sine/Square, I am puzzling over Mult/Asym/Curve.

*Of course, FilterStation can't compete with The Drop in terms of analog modeling.
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renderful
KVRer
 
24 posts since 26 Nov, 2006

Postby renderful; Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:21 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

Frantz wrote:
andy-cytomic wrote:I did spend a long time on the geometry of the old layout, which for me made loads of sense in terms of grouping and aesthetics. Unfortunately it completely lost lots of people and they found it really confusing and complicated to understand just by looking at it what was going on.


Count me in the confused group. With FilterStation*, I can throw it on a track and get a basic filtering effect including LFO modulation in seconds. With The Drop, I have to take off my musician hat and put on my engineering hat and think about how to get a particular LFO shape. Instead of picking Triangle/Sine/Square, I am puzzling over Mult/Asym/Curve.

*Of course, FilterStation can't compete with The Drop in terms of analog modeling.


I see your point regarding LFO shapes, BUT with The Drop's LFO's you can get a much wider range of shapes because you can dial in slight modifications to the overall shape using each control. The visualizer should help you in getting the correct shapes, since you can see them being dialed in. It should be more intuitive.
andy-cytomic
KVRian
 
1463 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Postby andy-cytomic; Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:34 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

Frantz wrote:Thanks for considering this Andy. Keeping the knobs and allowing people to interact with the visualizer would be a great compromise. This is what FabFilter have done with Timeless2 (below) which has both knobs and a visualizer you can interact with.

For the Drop, I suggest that 3 adjustable dots appear when the mouse moves over the visualizer. In Timeless2, when you drag the infinity dot, you are adjusting both cutoffs and resonances simultaneously. I think this would be more obvious than involving the Shift key. I wasn't aware that the Shift key linked the filters.

Not the shift key, the Shift knob, it moves both filter cutoffs together in the same direction. The Spread knob moves the left cutoff of both filters down while it moves the right cutoff of both filters up. So should the half way control move both cutoffs or the Shift knob? I'm leaning towards both cutoffs myself but thought I should ask since both are useful.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com
Synth Squad - www.fxpansion.com
andy-cytomic
KVRian
 
1463 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Postby andy-cytomic; Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:43 pm Re: Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

I think, apart from a more spacious layout, that part of the reason for people liking the old layout is that it had ring marks and labels on all the knobs. Because I needed to fit more in it is not possible to fit labels on all the knobs, and I removed the ring marks to keep things less busy looking, but that also makes it look less like actual hardware. So what do people prefer?

Ring marks only on most important knobs--
Full resolution: http://www.cytomic.com/files/drop-vis-mockup2.jpg
Image

Or ring marks on all knobs--
Full resolution: http://www.cytomic.com/files/drop-vis-mockup3.jpg
Image
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com
Synth Squad - www.fxpansion.com
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