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Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

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keyman_sam
KVRAF
 
3406 posts since 7 Mar, 2005

Postby keyman_sam; Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:10 am Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

I'm a reaper user. Love the program. Its got its niggles for sure, but it works. Its fast and I know enough shortcuts to do what I want.

A fellow musician showed me what cubase is capable of, recently and I have to say I'm quite impressed. Things that caught my eye:
1). Pitch correction is built-in and seamless. Melodyne functionality without the annoying wrapper.
2). Retro-record - Hit the record buttn anytime and you still got the stuff you heard before you hit the record button.
3). Midi as usual is awesome-sauce.
4). Built-in instruments for quick composition/rough-idea pad.
5). Track versions - seems like a great tool for people like myself

Some problems I've been having with Reaper:
1). Quantize - have to open the edit window every f*king time for a simple quantize.
2). ReWire is unpredictable. One day it works. Next day it doesn't.
3). Still don't trust its looping midi record capability - sometimes it might leave a note, or have stuck notes. I'm not sure. Also CC editing is finnicky.
4). input quantize is arduous.

On one hand I want the stability and lightweightedness of reaper (boots up fast) and on the other I want the functionality of Cubase. What do I do? :(
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chk071
KVRAF
 
3251 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:16 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

Use both? :P Adding to your ReWire point: It's a PITA to set up in Reaper, while it's child's play in Cubase. Of course you can add a template in Reaper, but if you want to use a changed configuartion, you have to fiddle again. A point that speaks for Reaper is definitely the performance, it's opened in under a second, even on my old dual core, and reacts very quickly when opened too. Cubase takes about 1/2-1 minute to open here, the bigger versions probably take even longer. I only know Cubase 7 from some videos i watched, but i must say i was pretty impressed too about many of the comfort functions they implemented. Well, in the end, you have to decide what weighs most for you, the pro's of Cubase, or the pro's of Reaper. Or, as i said, profit from both their pro's. :)
fese
KVRian
 
609 posts since 14 Sep, 2004, from $HOME

Postby fese; Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:22 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

throw a coin?
or let the money decide. Can you afford Cubase and its update prices? Are you willing to pay? Willing to use a USB dongle? Can you stand being hissed at by your fellow reaper users here when you switch to the dark side? :wink:
Don't wanna prevent you from getting Cubase here, I am a happy Cubase (6.5) user, stability is not an issue here, startup time is annoying, yes, but how often a day do you start your DAW? Also, I have an extra eLIcenser here with Padshop Pro License on it I would be willing to sell to you :)
fandango
KVRAF
 
3590 posts since 5 Jan, 2006, from UK

Postby fandango; Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:26 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

I've held onto both.

I tried very hard to do everything in Reaper since about 2008, but the channel data editing just drove me mental, and the old FRs to fix them are gathering dust in the FR graveyard now.

I'm now at a very happy stage where I do all my composition in Cubase (taking advantage of VST Expression, Retrospective Record, Chord tracks, etc.) and then export as audio tracks to Reaper to do final mixing and mastering which feels like a cleaner environment for it.

Sometimes you have to just accept that 2 apps do different things so well that you end up being happier using both, presuming you have a plan/workflow to accommodate that.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11507 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:36 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

All points you ask, are covered by Cubase. Melodyne like pitch shifting depends on personal opinion. The new Track version is however a great addition.


I do recommend to at least wait until Cubase 8 or even 8.5 however. Still too many issues for many users existing. Minor things to absolute showstoppers (ASIO engine comes to mind).

Unless you have a recent rig (i7 Haswell), don't even think about working with it efficiently without using "selected gear" and 1024 samples buffer size (compared to 128 samples for example).
keyman_sam
KVRAF
 
3406 posts since 7 Mar, 2005

Postby keyman_sam; Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:17 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

Compyfox wrote:All points you ask, are covered by Cubase. Melodyne like pitch shifting depends on personal opinion. The new Track version is however a great addition.


I do recommend to at least wait until Cubase 8 or even 8.5 however. Still too many issues for many users existing. Minor things to absolute showstoppers (ASIO engine comes to mind).

Unless you have a recent rig (i7 Haswell), don't even think about working with it efficiently without using "selected gear" and 1024 samples buffer size (compared to 128 samples for example).


Oh damn..that sounds bad. The guy that showed me 7.5 didn't have a glitch though. I might wait and find out.

Things I'm used to having in Reaper:
- Time-stamped backup, and options to open project without any VSTs loaded (saved me more than once)
- Macro to color my takes with one single keystroke
- Rendering to mp3, ogg, or whatever
- Sample-rate conversion on the fly, no settings required
- Working with full HD video files usually without stutters (varies)
- Flexible workspace - can move stuff around with toolbars and stuff
- 100+ tracks without a hitch (usually)
- Crossfades are quick.
- Effects can be inserted on individual clips and rendered as takes on the same clip (this is big)
- MOST IMPORTANTLY: Time-stretching and pitch-shifting is seamless. I went to a Logic 9 session and almost LOL'ed on the floor when the guy tried to time stretch a clip in real-time. It got stuck in 'Processing X samples' :D

Really that's about it. Reaper's main selling point is its fast and efficient, and load times are almost nil. No annoying "scanning for vst plugins" and all that crap on bootup. The other features most DAWs usually have. Really the reason for me even considering Cubase is I'm kinda getting sick of Reaper's midi setbacks and the pitch-correction would come in mighty handy for me. Otherwise I'd stick with the big R.
Alesis Fusion 6HD for sale/trade - Pm me!

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standalone
KVRAF
 
5657 posts since 8 May, 2008, from ssssskipping ......... I left you there

Postby standalone; Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:41 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

If you don't mind buying an eLicenser dongle (they will reimburse the cost if you finally purchase Cubase), try the demo. It makes absolutely no sense to wait until other people's issues are solved because they are just that: Other people's issues, not yours. Ask the people who are suffering bugs if they tried the demo before purchasing or updating, they will tell you "We didn't".
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11507 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:02 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

keyman_sam wrote:Oh damn..that sounds bad. The guy that showed me 7.5 didn't have a glitch though. I might wait and find out.


I am talking about rare, but still very apparent issues (like with every possible custom hardware setup). If your guy has a strong and more modern rig (or happens to have the right hardware combination), chances are that he doesn't run into that much issues either. It's just that this particular company seems to abandon optimisation for "faster development" (even if it goes wrong at certain ends) since "people adapt with new rigs and peripherals anyway". Which is not always true - especially not for freelancers like me. Or studios that trust their ADC gear.


keyman_sam wrote:Things I'm used to having in Reaper:
- Time-stamped backup, and options to open project without any VSTs loaded (saved me more than once)


Don't know about time stamps, but you can save "incemental". I have barely used this however. I always save manually with each major step. Auto save is available of course.


keyman_sam wrote:- Macro to color my takes with one single keystroke


Can be setup to your liking


keyman_sam wrote:- Rendering to mp3, ogg, or whatever


Can be done, especially with custom CODECs (dll) - though I don't think that Cubase will see an implementation of the Fraunhofer ProCodec with C8, like WL8.5 is getting. Though I'll let myself be positively surprised as I see the future in HD-AAC.


keyman_sam wrote:- Sample-rate conversion on the fly, no settings required


That is sadly (currently) not possible. If you load an audio file that is not in the project SRC/bitrate, the files will be converted. Having a "hybrid" setup like in Reaper is one of the rare features that I also miss in Cubase.


keyman_sam wrote:- Working with full HD video files usually without stutters (varies)


Depending on your rig, should be possible. Though "low res" videos are definitely recommended to save workpower.


keyman_sam wrote:- Flexible workspace - can move stuff around with toolbars and stuff


You can customize your environment, called "workspaces". And you can customize what toolsbars show up. I barely use this feature however - set up once, save as "template", done.


keyman_sam wrote:- 100+ tracks without a hitch (usually)


Depends on your rig's power and at what ASIO values you are. Chances are, that you need to freeze a lot with older rigs, or work at a ridiculus ASIO value in order to still continue to work in realtime. Yes, that can even happen on Ivy Bridges! (see random/rare issues)


keyman_sam wrote:- Crossfades are quick.


Possible


keyman_sam wrote:- Effects can be inserted on individual clips and rendered as takes on the same clip (this is big)


Bounce in Place - I'm not too sure on that currently. That FR still pops up once in a while at the Steinberg board (again, barely need "bounce in place"). FX for individual clips (hard coded rather than on the fly) is posisble.


keyman_sam wrote:- MOST IMPORTANTLY: Time-stretching and pitch-shifting is seamless. I went to a Logic 9 session and almost LOL'ed on the floor when the guy tried to time stretch a clip in real-time. It got stuck in 'Processing X samples' :D


Try to hunt down a video on Youtube regarding Cubase 5 to 7 about the time stretching functions. They used new algo's and made it a big issue with their release. There should be a video, where the presenter is using a regualr song and speeds it up/down with the new algo's. Sounded impressive to me. But the one time I needed that function, it didn't work out for me. :lol:


keyman_sam wrote:Really that's about it. Reaper's main selling point is its fast and efficient, and load times are almost nil. No annoying "scanning for vst plugins" and all that crap on bootup. The other features most DAWs usually have. Really the reason for me even considering Cubase is I'm kinda getting sick of Reaper's midi setbacks and the pitch-correction would come in mighty handy for me. Otherwise I'd stick with the big R.


MIDI wise, Cubase is still one among the best tools. But you lack some quick functions that both Reaper and FLStudio has in terms of editing. (that is a bit more streamlined with mouse control, scripts for dropping chords, etc - and I miss some quick edit features from Logic - but else it's fine - can't go more in depth, sorry).


It really depends on what you want to do with Cubase:
Songwriting, Audio Engineering, Postpro for Video, etc. Different tasks demand a different viewpoint. Cubase is not the definite jack of all trades device, and there are some usability setbacks compared to Logic/Reaper/whatever. But certain functions are definitely worth using it.

And there is hope, that C8 get's back on track again... Just like SX3 did after the mess that was both SX1 and SX2. Hence my warning to maybe still sit it out for a while. We have nearly end of March. Users do expect C8 by (about) October/November 2014 again. Unless Steinberg proves us wrong.


standalone wrote:It makes absolutely no sense to wait until other people's issues are solved because they are just that: Other people's issues, not yours.


They still exist though. :roll:


standalone wrote:Ask the people who are suffering bugs if they tried the demo before purchasing or updating, they will tell you "We didn't".


It would be nice, if there would be a demo existing on day one and not up to 4 months post release. :tu:
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standalone
KVRAF
 
5657 posts since 8 May, 2008, from ssssskipping ......... I left you there

Postby standalone; Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:16 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

I don't have a problem waiting for the demo every time there is a new version, and I don't understand what's the big issue about that: Moving to Cubase 7 in February instead of December? So, what? If I'm not mistaken you are doing fine with Cubase 6 or 6.5 right now. Where is the need to hurry?

And once more, if you need to wait until no one has a single bug to try or purchase a given piece of software, you are not going to use software ever. Every program works fine on some systems and has problems on others.
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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
 
7266 posts since 12 Oct, 2008, from Here and there

Postby Sampleconstruct; Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:23 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

OP, just dl the Cubase demo and check it out.
kmonkey
KVRAF
 
3264 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Postby kmonkey; Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:25 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

Sampleconstruct wrote:OP, just dl the Cubase demo and check it out.


He need a dongle in order to do this...Full Cubase 7.5 demo won't run without dongle. It's even listed in their demo page..
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11507 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:22 pm Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

There are two demo versions now:
Elements 7, which doesn't need an USB key. And after several months of delay, finally C7.5 full - which needs an USB key to demo. A boxed full version of Cubase does come with an USB key, upgrades do not.

The main difference from 7.0 (Essentials) to C7.5 (Full) are basically the new Track Version, Instrument Track 2.0, the new reverb and certain enhancements here and there. Essentials doesn't offer that, neither does it offer as many plugins or VSTi. But if you use third party content anyway - Essentials is (IMO) good enough to take a closer first look.


standalone wrote:I don't have a problem waiting for the demo every time there is a new version, and I don't understand what's the big issue about that: Moving to Cubase 7 in February instead of December? So, what? If I'm not mistaken you are doing fine with Cubase 6 or 6.5 right now. Where is the need to hurry?


I am actually on C7.x due to the features in there that do greatly improve my workflow. But it has (as noted) several showstoppers for me. The issue with a drastically postponed demo lies in relation with the paid-update and major-upgrade release cycle.

Would that be longer instead of 10-12 months per "update/upgrade", then a up to 4 month delayed demo version wouldn't matter as much. But let's assume Steinberg releases the next major version in November, the demo will be out soonest by End of the following February... that's four months. You then maybe take about one month to fully test all scenarios, try to find major issues/showstoppers and decide to go for it. Then we are already at month 5. About one to two months later, Steinberg then announced the interim paid update to hit around Summer of the same year, which is only 10 months after the major release in last November. And you can't utilize the Grace Period.

This is (IMO) a big problem... if there is a new host, and around the same time all other host devs drop new versions including all bells and whistles, then I want to test all of those that interest me ASAP. Not wait 1/4th a year to actually do so or go the 15EUR AI/LE route with a magazine - which greatly differs from the big versions in terms of features and performance.


I want to know if I have severe issues right from the start, not get hyped by other users and then realize four months later "crap... I can't use this thing and it's full of bugs". That is (IMO) wasted time which could be put for bugfixing.

In my example, I wasted about 2 months just to hunt down bugs that can apparently not be fixed within the current lifecycle of C7. And I paid full price for an update. That is (again IMO) unacceptable. So I currently live with all known setbacks (others switched back to C6.5) and try to get work done in hope that things turn out for the better. But this time, I want to test beforehand - maybe even at the same time as all other people.

Of course I could sit it out, but then the upgrade prices are beyond the roof and without any further logic.


standalone wrote:And once more, if you need to wait until no one has a single bug to try or purchase a given piece of software, you are not going to use software ever. Every program works fine on some systems and has problems on others.


But such drastic problems while the previous version worked flawlessly? And this wasn't just happening fo rme either. That can't be right, don't you think?




Anyway... I tried to help as much as I could in here.
In the end, it's up to the OP what he's doing.

Cubase is still a good host - but as of this moment, I can not honestly recommend C7.x without having a powerful rig and specific selected hardware.
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standalone
KVRAF
 
5657 posts since 8 May, 2008, from ssssskipping ......... I left you there

Postby standalone; Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:28 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

I use Cubase 7 on a Q6600 machine from 2008 running XP 32 with 4 GB of RAM, and Cubase's installer doesn't even allow the installation on XP, I had to hack my computer to install it, go figure.

I can honestly recommend everyone to try the demo of any software you are interested in. Other people's experiences are no indication of what you may find. Neither positive nor negative ones.
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fmr
KVRAF
 
3033 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:25 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

standalone wrote:I use Cubase 7 on a Q6600 machine from 2008 running XP 32 with 4 GB of RAM, and Cubase's installer doesn't even allow the installation on XP, I had to hack my computer to install it, go figure.

Why should it? The clearly state in the system requirements that's for Windows 7 or Windows 8.x only: http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cu ... loads.html
Fernando (FMR)
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standalone
KVRAF
 
5657 posts since 8 May, 2008, from ssssskipping ......... I left you there

Postby standalone; Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:39 am Re: Looking at cubase with curiosity - need feedback

I know, and that's why I did the hack.

The point is that Cubase 7 works even on an old computer with a 'forbidden' OS.
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