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So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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addled muppet weed
 
33580 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:15 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

if a giraffe eats a bowl of porridge in the jungle and david attenborough isnt around to film it, does it make a sound?

yes, it goes "mmmmm..."
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Beware the Quoth
 
21036 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:19 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

vurt wrote:if a giraffe eats a bowl of porridge in the jungle and david attenborough isnt around to film it, does it make a sound?

yes, it goes "mmmmm..."


why is the camel in the jungle? is its sense of direction as bad as its taste in breakfast cereals?
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRian
 
1343 posts since 19 Jun, 2011, from Sendai, Japan

Postby Doug1978; Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:32 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

vurt wrote:if a giraffe eats a bowl of porridge in the jungle and david attenborough isnt around to film it, does it make a sound?

yes, it goes "mmmmm..."




But why did the giraffe get lost in jungle?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL2Bgj-za5k
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addled muppet weed
 
33580 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:22 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

whyterabbyt wrote:
vurt wrote:if a giraffe eats a bowl of porridge in the jungle and david attenborough isnt around to film it, does it make a sound?

yes, it goes "mmmmm..."


why is the camel in the jungle? is its sense of direction as bad as its taste in breakfast cereals?


giraffes do not do alchemy!


you dont like porridge? who said anything about breakfast? :lol:
im beginning to doubt you are scottish at all! what next? no kilt?
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addled muppet weed
 
33580 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:23 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

Doug1978 wrote:
vurt wrote:if a giraffe eats a bowl of porridge in the jungle and david attenborough isnt around to film it, does it make a sound?

yes, it goes "mmmmm..."




But why did the giraffe get lost in jungle?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL2Bgj-za5k


because the parrots eat em all?
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Beware the Quoth
 
21036 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:48 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

vurt wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
vurt wrote:if a giraffe eats a bowl of porridge in the jungle and david attenborough isnt around to film it, does it make a sound?

yes, it goes "mmmmm..."


why is the camel in the jungle? is its sense of direction as bad as its taste in breakfast cereals?


giraffes do not do alchemy!


course they do. camels are just giraffes with the neck retracted; thats whats in the hump.


no kilt?


indeed not.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRist
 
168 posts since 10 Aug, 2005, from Belgium

Postby Kain; Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:18 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

jancivil wrote:Well, it is an ironic thing for me to see, because the feedback to my thing has so often been 'you tell a story'. I heard that when I was a kid noodling when we were stoned, 'that actually makes sense, like a story'. The remark 'unstructured' just a total sign of ignorance. I made a lot of music, and it changes all the time, some of it is a bit outside but it's not even that radical for 2014. My perhaps second most extreme piece refers to things half a century ago.
I'm interested in MELODY.

Sure, 'Kain', you would only recognize the cookie cutter.

And it's gross because it's retaliatory. Who would respect what this thread is? My god, it's so transparent. It seems like to me people that LIVE on the f**king internet think they get over on people with bullshit.

Hey Kain, why don't you post your latest two tracks and let's let the group hear them right beside mine!



Sure ... I have not work much on my music since I immigrated to Canada 17 months ago and left my computer and my equipment behind in Belgium.

I recently shipped everything but when putting my computer back together I put the proc in sideways and broke one pin on my motherboard.

So now I need to save some money to buy a new X58 motherboard .. or install all my stuff on my laptop. (and then work with ASIO4all)

Anyway .. the latest track I made is not really good. I made it on my laptop in FL Studio in demo mode (where you can't save).

https://soundcloud.com/matthijsbos/i-screwed-up

I only like the bass sound, made by two Wasp layers with some weird maximus effect.
But my listeners seem to like it from minute 3, where there is some melody.

The track before that is probably Funky Dunky, made over teamviewer (so I would log in to my DAW in Belgium from my laptop in Canada)

Here is a version with Jeanette Robertson drunkenly singing over it.

https://soundcloud.com/brorobotron/tidbit

My acoustic stuff always sounds best because I never put any effort in learning to mix and when you only have 3 or 4 acoustic instruments you don't have to mix as much as with EDM. By the way it's stil software (Trillian, Stylus RMX and MrRay73 Mark II)

But my two latest tracks I made in my own studio (by studio I mean my room)

https://soundcloud.com/matthijsbos/de-koning-komt

and

https://soundcloud.com/matthijsbos/glor ... on-draft-1

But I am a piano composer ... not a producer ... and if you are ever in Alberta Canada .. come meet me and I'll play you the story of 2012 when I was locked in a mental hospital for 4 months, my mother had a heart transplant, I immigrated to Canada and Jesus brought me at the place I was longing to be for 7 years (4 themed composition, about 15 minutes long with a spoken story)

I am sorry I upset you, I just spoke my mind as the loud mouthed dutchie I am.
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Rad Grandad
 
24540 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
    

Postby Hink; Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:34 am Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

trimph1 wrote:Re: Kain's comments about music 'telling a story' is, to me, a bit of a puzzle. In what way, pray tell? Do these 'narratives' have to have a beginning, middle, end? Like Verse chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, verse, chorus?

Then it does go into that old saw...it has to be 'popular' to be seen as 'good'.


I think all music and art tells a story...this is the beauty of art, it's in the perception where it becomes magic because it tells a different story to different people. If you not versed in the language the story is written you may not get the story, you might only get bits and pieces or you may have your own take on it by trying to interpret what the artist had in mind.

I think it's important for an artist to understand this, bottom line...what you are trying to express may not be how it is received and the most important thing to remember is this is a good thing. If a song does not tell a story do not blame the composer, it might simply be because the listener cannot 'feel' the story.

For instance change it from music to paintings for a sec...how many times do people say "what does this painting say to you?" Logic like you suggest Barry would be "Paintings do not talk", but they do and they tell different stories to different people (unless you're Richard Dadd who wrote a poem telling the story of his picture :hihi:...queen did a song using his poem).

IMO this is what art is about, art is about expression which people blindly think means communication as well...but alas I do not think expression and communication go hand in hand when it comes to art...so if you hear a song and it does not tell a story to you that does not mean there is or isn't a story...it's not about the artist...what does the song say to you...if the answer is nothing than it does not make the song bad, it does not make the artist a poor communicator, it simply means the song may not be your [the listener] thing...nothing more, nothing less.

This is why I do not care for people who feel they can judge another artist, think about how much time a musician spends playing compared to the 5 minute or 3 minute (or what have you) windows we as observers have to 'judge' an artist by...is that really enough to make any assessment of anything? (I was going to start of with the word talent but I realized 'anything' was better)

From mega starts to people who have been playing for decades, what you hear might not be who they are...that's the beauty of art...besides with so many artists trying to make a living with their art some may create art that generates dollars so they can afford to make the art that drives their soul...judgment just does not belong in this picture...neither does defending your art...it's your art and if no one else likes it that is on them and should have no bearing on what you do with your passion.

FTR I just want to state that this does not mean criticism is a bad thing, that's why there is a thing called constructive criticism as critique from contemporaries can be very helpful (as well as John Q Public)...you just have to sort out the critique from the hate :)
Thank cod I love fish
KVRist
 
168 posts since 10 Aug, 2005, from Belgium

Postby Kain; Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:00 pm Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

Yes Hink, you phrase it better then myself.

What I mean by telling a story is more:

Progress by patterns that are somewhat predictable and can be projected on human emotions. This is personal preference. The music I enjoy most has chords as the basic building blocks. The chords progress ... but also repeat them self .. one way or another. I find this the most hard thing to do in my compositions. Your chords progress ... but now your theme has drifted away and you want to find a transition back to something familiar ... without everybody thinking "hey this is suddenly a different song" .. or a different story.

I like music (maybe I should say compositions) that projects its own expected pattern. You are listening to it ... and your brain immediately picks up the structure of the chords (or baseline).... then there is progression and you are waiting for it to return to base again, to that motif you now recognise because it was repeated in the beginning of the song. And then boom ... the composition goes back to the familiar ... but still sounds a little different. This, in my mind, is similar to a hero that has learned something new in his journey and now returns home ... to the familiar. But our hero has changed while the world (chord blocks) is still much the same.

The best example I know and one of the most beautiful compositions I know is Claud Debussy with Clair de Lune.

Here is a soundcloud version I found
https://soundcloud.com/jrhodespianist/c ... ne-debussy

The musical journey I talk about is one of emotions, not a literal story. But yes to answer trimph1 his question: I prefer structured and somewhat predictable music.

The brain enjoys when it predicts patterns or when it can complete one of these patterns before it actually happens in the music. Then when it happens the brain is like: "hey I got it right ... I like this". It's one of the reasons why we sometimes enjoy music more after we repeat it. And why we sometimes get a song stuck in our head. Brain's like ... this pattern is familiar .. let's keep repeating it!

Let's take an example from a totally different style: Jazz.

Wes Montgomery with "jingles"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGJ6aH-uiyY

Do you hear that recurring theme in the beginning? It sets the background to the story.

Whatever this story might be ... it's emotion ... from sad .. to calm .. to excited .. to crazzy ... to joy. Etc ... I don't like a composition that starts happy and fast (mainly major) and end sad and slow (mainly minor). You see how I have linked concepts in music to emotions I am familiar with? You can layer the order of emotions over any story of words .. were the order of emotions in the story is the same as in the music.

You see emotions are abstract but still universal, every human being knows them. Music is the symbolisms to these emotions. And yes you could link minor with happy and major with sad if you expose a young child to movies where minor chords play over the happy parts and major over the sad. So emotions are universal ... the link between music and emotion is more personal. However in the west we mainly listen to music were we all agree about this connection. And were different tone scales sound horrible to us.


Back to "jingles" ... after the background of the story (framework) is set at 1:06 we take off. The drums now take the lead, the bass helps keeping a framework (something familiar) .. while the other instruments take turn in telling their stories in the solos. Then at 3:25 the bass notes from the first minute come back to the foreground. tum dum ... and it keeps on repeating .. preparing to go back to the beginning and finish the story. Full circle .. it's a returning think in everything human beings create that has a timeline (so not a painting) and linear progression. Now the drums start asking for a return to the beginning and finally around 5 minutes the other instruments finally listen .. return to the beginning motive and the drum stops asking ... we go back to the familiar and the song ends.


Ok back to jancivil's question for comparison.

Let's take his latest Revolve I

http://www.official.fm/tracks/bh7Q

and compare it to my piano power.

https://soundcloud.com/matthijsbos/piano-power

My point is .. what I enjoy in music and what jancivil enjoys.. what our brains are focussed towards .. is radical different. My second point is that there are more people on the internet that listen to the structured music versus the unstructured.

jancivil feel free to make any comparison you want. You know my soundcloud .. and I have only listened to maybe 10 of your songs on official.fm, bandcamp and soundcloud. So maybe I am wrong about your preference to unstructured (or different structured music). I would like to hear some songs from you that are a bit different.


Most of your music is in this style

https://soundcloud.com/notevenhardly/dry-heat-extended

The only word that comes to mind is "cacophony; a harsh, discordant mixture of sounds."

Or how are you suppose to call it? Again, maybe I am listening to the wrong songs or maybe I should take some more time to listen to it.

Here is something tagged as jazz

https://soundcloud.com/notevenhardly/le ... les-sec1-3

Beautiful sounds by the way, like the piano sounds at 2 minutes. But I can't like the composition because that's just not what my brain enjoys. I guess the correct musical term is "experimental" -- > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_music

Am I right?
Last edited by Kain on Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rad Grandad
 
24540 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
    

Postby Hink; Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:06 pm Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

Kain wrote:

My point is .. what I enjoy in music and what jancivil enjoys.. what our brains are focussed towards .. is radical different.


which may just mean you cannot understand her story, doesn't mean there isn't one :shrug:
Thank cod I love fish
KVRist
 
168 posts since 10 Aug, 2005, from Belgium

Postby Kain; Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:17 pm Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

yes, you are right ... I did wrote that. And yes you are right .. it only means I have not learned how to pick up on the story .. it does not mean there isn't one.
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KVRAF
 
8337 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:20 pm Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

@Kain

If you want to dance or party or both and all, do you need a story? :P

I cannot hear a story in most electronic dance/trance songs...

But it's true that a good song needs some structure. I don't like all this experimental stuff, for me song structure is an important point!
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KVRAF
 
3287 posts since 20 Sep, 2005

Postby codec_spurt; Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:23 pm Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

vurt wrote:if a giraffe eats a bowl of porridge in the jungle and david attenborough isnt around to film it, does it make a sound?

yes, it goes "mmmmm..."



Ah, so now we know. City or United fan.

-------------------------------------------------
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea
----------------------------------------------

Explains it all.
KVRist
 
168 posts since 10 Aug, 2005, from Belgium

Postby Kain; Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:26 pm Re: So the controversial Aloysius ... making progress or not?

Tricky-Loops wrote:@Kain

If you want to dance or party or both and all, do you need a story? :P

I cannot hear a story in most electronic dance/trance songs...

But it's true that a good song needs some structure. I don't like all this experimental stuff, for me song structure is an important point!



I can't either in any club music .. or on much mainstream EDM I hear on radio or mtv (very rare, only when in a supermarket or when eating something with mtv on in the background).

I also never go to club or any place where people dance .. the music is always way to loud for my ears. (like damaging loud). I could try some good festivals in the future ... but I disagree totally with the lifestyle of most people that go to festivals like Sensation White or Tomorrowland. I just would not fit in ... even if I can go totally crazy on a drum and bass song like Netsky's Memory Lane.

But take a trance song like Ferry Corsten's sublime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFWJE7BEug

Definitely a beautiful story there ...

Or listen to any of the albums of Above and Beyond.

Or the master in this type of story telling. Daft Punk with interstella 5555. There are only some lyrics in that animation story ... the story drives on emotions ... emotions displayed by the animation ... but carried by the music.
Last edited by Kain on Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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