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The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2569 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:38 am Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

dsan@mail.com wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:....You mean midi routing from track to track or what is the most critical for you?

Cheers,

Tom


I had a little time to play around last night and I find routing MIDI track to track very convenient and implemented in a way that is easily understandable.

The more I get to spend some time with BWS the more I am liking it, definitely.

And so stable on my machine - unbelievable compared to Live. No glitches so far.

What I miss most, so far, is the ability to run MIDI over LAN.

Being able to send MIDI back and forth between computers has totally enhanced my work methods. I really don't know yet if I want to do without that or if I want to move the programs on comp. #2 over and do everything on one computer again.

That's not so much joy once one gets used to a multi set-up.

It is doable, obviously, and I am most enjoying what I have so far with BWS, so the positives are outweighing the negatives.

If I can figure a way to get MIDI over LAN, game over and here's my card!

But until then I continue to weigh the +'s / -'s.

I think truly that is my only stumbling block - MIDI over LAN. I realize this has been promised for v2; however, when will v2 arrive? And when it does will it be a paid update?

Naturally, these are rhetorical questions so in the meantime I'll continue to demo and ponder the +/- situation ;)

Also, in the meantime, I'll bet some enterprising really smart person will come up with a method :hihi:

Thank you for the compliment Thomas! I try :oops:

Happy Musiking!
dsan


Ah, I see, well, that's a rather special requirement ;-)

I would really test CopperLan if the other solution doesn't work, since they offer exactly that - Midi Over Lan and virtual midi on the same machine with a kind of node-based editor.

But I also wonder why LoopMidi/rtpMidi don't work for you. I found rtp a bit fiddly at first to set up but found a great setup video on YouTube and then it clicked. I tried it out again yesterday with TouchDAW on my android phone as a Mackie Control and it's totally fun. I use it via Wifi though. It's especially funny since I have my BCF2000 attached too, and the motorfaders move also when I move the slider on the phone and the other way around. I would have expected some conflicts with such a setup.

Do you have Apple Bonjour installed? It seems to be critical for easy network communication with zero setup in rtp....

What do you use with Live?

For me, BWS is extremely stable for months now. There were to-expected bugs every now and then, but hardly any crashes like people are seeing now - and those bugs got quickly resolved. I hope the same will happen for the bigger audience now.

Cheers,

Tom
User avatar
kaspy003
KVRer
 
25 posts since 20 Jan, 2014

Postby kaspy003; Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:40 am Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

Made just for fun, and learn new beautiful daw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPvyZK4DHcA
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2569 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:47 am Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

LawrenceF wrote:The BiP crash still happens in 1.02. I'm sure they'll sort it out soon enough.

General Observation:

The problem related to crash protection is it not reloading the instruments and plugs set as they were. When you reload the plugs they reload "naked', so you have to go back and load the patches or whatever. Once they can sort that out, reload any crashed plugs with their previous settings, that will all be pretty neat.

Maybe pull those plugin settings from the saved song file to at least get that last state.

As it stands now, if 3-4 plugs crash the only real way to get all of your mix settings back quickly (that I can see anyway, mmv on the unknown of RTFM) is to reload the full song file, so it's kind of a "Catch-22" thing. The app doesn't crash but you still have to reload the song (last saved state anyway) to get back where you were with all of you plugin settings ... unless you stored presets for those plugs you tweaked and then I guess you could just go through and load all of those presets... which might be slower than just re-loading the song.

But if you've also made other edit changes you want to keep since last save, you can't really do that, reload the song, without losing those, so keeping track of the current plugin states (or pulling them from the saved song file) somehow is probably the best way.

Anyway, they'll sort all of that out I'm sure.

P.S. Obviously, in context, the main purpose of that is to not bring down an entire live performance when a plug crashes so... it's a good thing. It just maybe needs a tiny bit of tweaking for studio use.


I wonder if it is related to the demo. I can't remember EVER having plugins NOT recover after a crash. What you describe is of course not the intended behaviour.
Although I hardly ever had Plugin crashes (and I have about ~600 VSTs in my 32 Bit folder and use many of them ;-) ).
But I also have to admit that I don't use bouncing much, so it may be mainly related to that. I read that it works best at 44khz and not so well at 48.
I'm sure they are on that one like there is no tomorrow ;-)

Cheers,

Tom
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4476 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:53 am Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

Ah .... a "Sherlock Homie" moment. :hihi:

The BiP crashes here are directly related to midi clip length. It's maybe the case that beta testers were doing what they would more typically do with Ableton Live, running and bouncing shorter midi clips, loops, not trying to bounce very long midi clips.

I sliced that drum clip down from it's original full song length to a 16 bar clip and it bounced in place as expected.

So, maybe there's a repeatable test to pass along in there somewhere.
dsan@mail.com
KVRAF
 
2115 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:56 am Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

@Thomas - loopMIDI works great; however, it is designed to port MIDI on the same machine. In other words, I open BWS and a stand alone of K5. I route via loopMIDI, port 1, channel 1, OUT K5 to IN BWS loopMIDI, port 1, channel 1.

Since BWS is based on 1 MIDI channel your protocol now gives me the 16 channels loopMIDI is capable of per port (you can create as many ports as you want with loopMIDI).

rptMIDI, on the other hand, is a device that will provide ports BETWEEN machines, with 16 channels per port. Again, you can set-up as many ports as you want, since once in use you cannot use the port on another device. All part of the MIDI specifications protocols.

BWS recognizes the rptMIDI port I have created, called W7; however, it does not send or receive over this port.

I read in one of the posts (somewhere here) that BWS will not send MIDI Time Code (strange since it gives the option to set up a device for MIDI TIME CODE in pref's).

Since I haven't had an opportunity to look into this for myself I assumed the poster was accurate and just accepted it to be so.

I am hopeful to prove him (her) inaccurate once I have opportunity to fully dive into BWS. I just find it odd that the port is listed but cannot access. Odd too that I can set up a device to send Time Code if it isn't implemented.

I am not opposed to CopperLAN and looked into it at the time I found rptMIDI/loopMIDI. I found, for me, rptMIDI/loopMIDI to be a better solution. However, I may have to look back into this.

Thomas, can you confirm will BWS send, or not, over a LAN device and will it, or not, send MIDI Time Code? In case you are unfamiliar, which I doubt, one will use MIDI Time Code for such as transport control (Start/Stop/Continue...etc.) as well as a plethora of other uses.

Thanks very much!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

PS - yes, Bonjour is set up here.

I am surprised your results over WIFI, yes indeed. I too would have expected some issues - congrats on the success! :tu:
Last edited by dsan@mail.com on Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
dsan@mail.com
KVRAF
 
2115 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:59 am Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

LawrenceF wrote:Ah .... a "Sherlock Homie" moment. :hihi:

The BiP crashes here are directly related to midi clip length. It's maybe the case that beta testers were doing what they would more typically do with Ableton Live, running and bouncing shorter midi clips, loops, not trying to bounce very long midi clips.

I sliced that drum clip down from it's original full song length to a 16 bar clip and it bounced in place as expected.

So, maybe there's a repeatable test to pass along in there somewhere.



AHA.....GREAT News LawrenceF! :tu:

Good detective work!

I'm sure this will be very helpful since there seemed to be a lot of complaints of crashes when bouncing.

And who said size doesn't matter? :hihi:

Happy Musiking!
dsan
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
dsan@mail.com
KVRAF
 
2115 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:02 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

kaspy003 wrote:Made just for fun, and learn new beautiful daw!


Thank you kaspy003 for the post. Looking forward to viewing it later on today :tu:

Happy Musiking!
dsan
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4476 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:06 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

Question for you BWS Gurus who've been at it for months:

With BiP is there any way other than undo to keep the midi? I actually expected (no clue why) it would kinda do like Reaper, bounce the midi clip to audio but keep both the midi and audio clips on a Hybrid Track on the timeline.

Thanks. I won't ask any more dumb questions, I'll put the PDF on my iPad and read up when I go into Al Bundy couch potato mode later.
User avatar
kaspy003
KVRer
 
25 posts since 20 Jan, 2014

Postby kaspy003; Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:08 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

dsan@mail.com wrote:
kaspy003 wrote:Made just for fun, and learn new beautiful daw!


Thank you kaspy003 for the post. Looking forward to viewing it later on today :tu:

Happy Musiking!
dsan


:tu:
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2569 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:14 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

LawrenceF wrote:Question for you BWS Gurus who've been at it for months:

With BiP is there any way other than undo to keep the midi? I actually expected (no clue why) it would kinda do like Reaper, bounce the midi clip to audio but keep both the midi and audio clips on a Hybrid Track on the timeline.

Thanks. I won't ask any more dumb questions, I'll put the PDF on my iPad and read up when I go into Al Bundy couch potato mode later.


I fear not - for the time being the advice I read is to duplicate the track before bouncing...

Cheers,

Tom
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4476 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:37 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

ThomasHelzle wrote:I wonder if it is related to the demo. I can't remember EVER having plugins NOT recover after a crash. What you describe is of course not the intended behaviour.

Cheers,

Tom


That makes perfect sense actually. :dog:

If they're already doing that, resetting the plugin settings from the song file so that "reload" recalls their last saved settings, we demo users would never actually see that happen since we can't save a song file. :lol:

Not quite a ... "face-palm myself moment" ... but very, very close. :hihi:
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
3824 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:19 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

pdxindy wrote:What is the intended workflow in Bitwig for making a user library of presets?

Are people just adding them in with the Bitwig library? Thoughts anyone?


This is what I've been trying to figure out! I don't want my presets mixed in with the Factory Content. I started a thread, but it's getting no love:
viewtopic.php?f=259&t=407082

The only thing I can figure out is to use the Files tab and then set bookmarks. Then drag presets in there.

I think the philosophy is that your presets should be added to the full library and since it automatically has your username as Author, that's what's supposed to separate it. I want my own custom folder directory with mixed presets of native devices and VSTs. But saving any preset for a device puts it under that devices presets.

I guess if you don't like this system you have to use the file browser which I just find cluttered but oh well. At least bookmarks go at the top. I could do without the names all ending with ".bwpreset" in the browser though...
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2569 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:04 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

@dsan:

Okay, it works ;-)

I connected rtpMidi from my main Windows 8.1 Machine with my old MacBookPro 2007. The saw each other without problems using the latest OSX (but it worked also with the same laptop running Windows 8.1 and also rtpMidi).
I then played back Midi in BWS on a track with the Hardware Instrument and sent the output to the rtpMidi Channel I created.
To see if the timing works, I created an automation lane for the transport in BWS and set some points.
On the Laptop, I started Mainstage. In the Midi Setup I told the external device that represented the rtpMidi connection to receive MidiBeatClock.
Then I ran the Track in BWS on the PC and hurray, the Mainstage session speed followed suit. ;-)

Timing sounded accurate to me, although I only did it by ear.

But it was totally painless and worked as expected on first try.
Interesting - I never used this before ;-)

Cheers,

Tom
User avatar
Tronam
KVRAF
 
1537 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Seattle, WA - USA

Postby Tronam; Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:08 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

It's funny how we all keep returning to this oceanic thread despite the opening of Bitwig's new dedicated forum. Old habits die hard.
Ogopogo
KVRian
 
1332 posts since 1 Oct, 2013

Postby Ogopogo; Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:18 pm Re: The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

Yeah, its could still function as a lounge sort of thread for stuff that doesn't belong in the bitwig forum though.

BTW 1.0.3 is out.
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