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I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

If it's not about music it belongs here! Please keep it civil and decent.... except - see below->

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KVRian
 
848 posts since 1 May, 2010

Postby xamido; Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:38 pm I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

So lately i've been seeing a lot of early access game on steam. They are labeled as beta, alpha, pre-alpha, etc.

At first i thought it was okay, but i've been seeing more and more early access game that shouldn't have been made available for public to play in their current state. This is the worst offender that i've seen today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwGBB1a7Gjg

Imagine if audio company here do that kind of stuff? Imagine the backlash they would get. Even Bitwig that's pretty usable (with some bugs of course) have receive some backlash for releasing their 1.0 version.

But what i'm seeing on the comment section there is a bunch of gamer defending the despicable act of releasing paid for pre-alpha version. Apparently brainwashing have succeed, the younger generation are getting less strict to company money grabbing policy and actually support this behavior.

I'm just so sick of it. Back in the 90s, doom offer free demo, instead now we have to pay to be a beta tester and risk our own computer safety. :x

Here's the problem with early access and kickstarter for me.

There's no time limit. A game can stay in early access status for years while generating revenues by selling promises that may or may not be fulfilled.

And every time people criticize the game mechanic or design, they will hide behind their early access status.

I'm offended by the Carmageddon because of a known fact that they have lied previously with their kickstarter. They promises a game that were supposed to be finished last year. They mention the release 1 to be available in february 2013 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/st ... ncarnation. Yet here they are in steam, with a broken pre-alpha released last month without any time table of when it will be finished. Check the early access release date, it's 28th of March 2014.

How is that acceptable? In what business is it acceptable to promise to the customer of an item delivery in February 2013 only to have it delayed indefinitely without the customer able to cancel the purchase and get refund? In what business is it acceptable that a company ask you to pay and send you 1/10 of the item that you're buying and you have no idea of when you will receive the rest of it?

I believe steam should require that every early access game is in a playable state or with the meat of the game already there. Those pre-alpha game with mere bones should not be made for sale. People will buy in to the promises, yet a game can stay languished in early access status for years. It encourage unhealthy business model, when the dev already receive the money and they know it's unrefundable they can slack off.

Another case in point is the possibility of player burning out before the game is released. People can get bored playing the same incomplete game over and over again for a long period of time. This is more prevalent with multiplayer early access game. The community can be exhausted and die out by the time the full version is released, defeating the point of a multiplayer game.

The point of early access is money. The dev must be allowed to be hold accountable on finishing their product properly.
Last edited by xamido on Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
GAS
KVRAF
 
4426 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:48 pm Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

Despicable and downright rotten, just like that game itself :D
What's hurting most is just watching the FPS stutter on collisions in people's youtube videos.
Those dev's better shape up or ship out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyJzzd48loc
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KVRian
 
848 posts since 16 Feb, 2010

Postby gamecat666; Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:21 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

but its, by definition, 'Early Access'
its not a full demo, its an alpha.

would you get a Beta version of software then complain about bugs?

you dont have to pay anything. just wait for the eventual free demo.

regarding the money: think of it more like kickstarter. contributing to the cost of developing the game in the hope that you'll get what you want at the end. yes its a gamble, but nobody is forcing you.
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KVRAF
 
2858 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat
  

Postby ariston; Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:25 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

gamecat666 wrote:but its, by definition, 'Early Access'
its not a full demo, its an alpha.

would you get a Beta version of software then complain about bugs?

you dont have to pay anything. just wait for the eventual free demo.

regarding the money: think of it more like kickstarter. contributing to the cost of developing the game in the hope that you'll get what you want at the end. yes its a gamble, but nobody is forcing you.


Exactly. If you don't like the business model, don't support it.

The user review section in Steam is really helpful with this. I mean, you do have to wade through the requisite "dis game rox/sux!" bullshit, but you can get a general idea about whether the game is already in a playable state or not. "Sir, you are being hunted" is a good example of an early access game that's well worth it.
KVRian
 
863 posts since 1 Jul, 2008

Postby stimresp; Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:47 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

First world concerns!

I was an early adopter for Insurgency and it's developed into quite an excellent game. In this case the developers were very responsive to early user experiences and problems. Seems like a good development model to me.
http://www.playinsurgency.com/
KVRian
 
873 posts since 19 Aug, 2011
 

Postby BMoore; Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:40 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

So you're paying $30 to be a pre-alpha tester?!
What ever floats your boat.
The sun always shines on tv | http://soundcloud.com/bmoorebeats
KVRist
 
159 posts since 1 Nov, 2012, from England

Postby d-s-m; Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:07 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

Meh......I'll wait and pick up the finished version for $2 in a Steam sale, which we all know will happen sooner or later.
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Beware the Quoth
 
21205 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:50 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

xamido wrote:I'm just so sick of it. Back in the 90s, doom offer free demo, instead now we have to pay to be a beta tester and risk our own computer safety. :x


Erm, no, we dont.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRian
 
751 posts since 22 Oct, 2004, from Schmocation

Postby skipscada; Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:11 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

whyterabbyt wrote:
xamido wrote:I'm just so sick of it. Back in the 90s, doom offer free demo, instead now we have to pay to be a beta tester and risk our own computer safety. :x


Erm, no, we dont.


Oh yes, we choose to let ourself be forced to pay for entertainement that we know won't give us the satisfaction we feel the entertainment potentially could give us. A very subtle joy, enhanced by the "entitled to complain"-factor.
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Beware the Quoth
 
21205 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:40 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

skipscada wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
xamido wrote:I'm just so sick of it. Back in the 90s, doom offer free demo, instead now we have to pay to be a beta tester and risk our own computer safety. :x


Erm, no, we dont.


Oh yes, we choose to let ourself be forced to pay for entertainement that we know won't give us the satisfaction we feel the entertainment potentially could give us. A very subtle joy, enhanced by the "entitled to complain"-factor.


well, buying stuff one doesnt need in order to complain about it is certainly one of the prediminant core vicarious pleasures in evidence at KVR, second only to not buying stuff and complaining about it anyway.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRAF
 
5584 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:55 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

Computer games need more demos.
Even if they're short, at least we can find out if they're compatible with the system.
System requirements aren't enough to go by.
KVRian
 
848 posts since 1 May, 2010

Postby xamido; Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:04 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

My point is not about the choice of not buying it, but how can gamer accept this kind of behavior from the devs? Let's be honest, if a company like east west or tone 2 (the usual scapegoat in kvr) offer beta that you have pay to access some of you guys would be mad and start calling them greedy. Even on bitwig thread many people are angry and calling the full release as paying for beta.

Nowadays company offer lesser demo and went this paid for beta route. They even monetize everything with in game currency in beta. This will distort the younger generation perception of a nice business model.
GAS
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Beware the Quoth
 
21205 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:19 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

xamido wrote:My point is not about the choice of not buying it, but how can gamer accept this kind of behavior from the devs?


Well, for a start, this kind of thing is often a main funding source for smaller developers. So gamers 'can accept this' in that situation because they get to help smaller companies produce the games they actually want to buy, instead of just waiting for the next blockbuster iteration of Call of GTA.

Are there many of these where you only get the beta? I doubt it; you're actually getting the full game too in most cases. And cheaper. Plus you get to feel part of 'the team', provide feedback (not just bugs) and be 'first', all things that actually appeal to some people.

There's nothing in any of that where people are getting ripped off, or for you to get indignant about. So why are you? Because you dont get it? Fine. Other people do.

They 'accept it' because they 'get it'. Simple.

Let's be honest, if a company like east west or tone 2 (the usual scapegoat in kvr) offer beta that you have pay to access some of you guys would be mad and start calling them greedy.


Ah, the old 'but if it was you, you wouldnt like it fallacy'. Sorry, no, doesnt wash.

Even on bitwig thread many people are angry and calling the full release as paying for beta.


Sorry, Im lost as to what you're arguing now. First it was 'paid game betas are bad', then it was 'theoretical audio betas would be bad' now its 'software that has some bugs in it gets called a beta'.

Nowadays company offer lesser demo and went this paid for beta route. They even monetize everything with in game currency in beta. This will distort the younger generation perception of a nice business model.


You mean like youve obviously been distorted by a different one? Welcome to the 21st. :shrug:

Seriously. If you dont like it, dont buy it. Dont presume to speak for 'gamers' though, because plenty of them do like it. Minecraft made a f**king mint off it.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRian
 
848 posts since 1 May, 2010

Postby xamido; Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:01 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

How hard is it to understand? People don't like to pay for beta in any form with audio software and yet gamer defend it.

And in the case of my initial video it was a double insult. First they reach their kickstarter goal, and then tell people to pay for their pre-alpha. They were supposed to release the game last year and so far in 2014 they only have this piece of shit pre-alpha to show?

There's a game on steam that were released as a full version reverted their status to early access. It will set a precedent that this dev can hide behind early access status for buggy software and market their game through lies, just like what happen in WarZ case.

The system have been misused.
Last edited by xamido on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
GAS
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Beware the Quoth
 
21205 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:05 am Re: I'm so sick of early access game on steam.

xamido wrote:How hard is it to understand? People don't like to pay for beta in audio and yet gamer defend it.


How hard is it to understand? Some people don't like to pay for beta in audio, and yet some gamers like to.

Stop extrapolating from 'I' into 'everyone' and you'll work out what's going on.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
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