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As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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fmr
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2866 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:47 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

ariston wrote:Serious mode: @fmr, it's really down to context. A word is just a word (say "compose" over and over for five minutes and see what happens). The context being: funny how all the music hacks of the past are "geniuses", who only produced "masterpieces". Learnèd texts that analyse classical tunes rhapsodise over the ingenuity of this motif here and that diminished fifth there, as if these were god-like drops of perfection. It elevates the entire thing to a place where it doesn't deserve to be.

Don't get me wrong: I can get very excited about music, but it's one thing to love it, and another to canonize it. Maybe what I'm trying to say can best be understood through this Buddhist anecdote:

A student says to his master:
"Master, isn't it true that Zen is a dewdrop forming on a budding flower?"
The master says: "Yes, that's true. A pity you had to speak it aloud."

I didn't quite follow you, but if that reference to "canonize" is addressed to me, you can't be more wrong. I often scandalized my fellows by saying that I don't find the majority of Mozart works very interesting, for example. And I definitely do not "canonize" anything, and the devotion I have towards what I consider "masterpieces" is the same no matter if they came from Bach or from Vangelis, for example. I never said that all pieces from the famous masters of the past are masterpieces, and I don't see where you got that idea from, but it's wrong. Besides, many music written in the past just remained in the past, and for a good reason. Unfortunately, we are exposed to all the trash done today, but the time will take care of wash everything that do not deserve to survive, that's for sure.

And, as you seem to be in the spirit, I am just saying that calling anything being composed nowadays "songs" is an anecdote, and there are no reasons to fear the word compositions, and composer. But you may use simply "music works", if that makes you feel more comfortable.
Last edited by fmr on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)
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fmr
KVRAF
 
2866 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:54 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

an-electric-heart wrote:Me too... if this counts as classical :hihi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk#t=99

I'm always late to the party with these things, only saw it for the first time a couple of days ago.

It's a great "song" :hihi:
Fernando (FMR)
wonshu
KVRist
 
286 posts since 13 Jul, 2003, from Berlin

Postby wonshu; Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:03 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

If you want to do yourself a real favor and get a couple (36 if I remember correctly) hours to indulge then you should get this course:

http://www.audible.com/pd/Arts-Entertai ... s=center-2

You can even sign up for audible, get the 2 free welcome books (of which one can be the above course), cancel your account and you still get to keep the books.

I've greatly enjoyed listening to these lectures and have rediscovered a much much deeper love for any music really. Great perspective.

Best,
Hans
Good Loops - Guitar Kitchen Vol. 1 - indie singer-songwriter acoustic guitar loop sample library for Kontakt, AppleLoops, ACIDized wavs and rex2
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ariston
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2831 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat

Postby ariston; Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:06 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

@fmr: it was in no way aimed at you, I was talking about my RL experiences with classical aficionados.
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Tricky-Loops
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8266 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:28 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

ariston wrote:@fmr: it was in no way aimed at you, I was talking about my RL experiences with classical aficionados.
Is it true that in a concert hall people should behave like in a church? :P
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33651 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:33 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Tricky-Loops wrote:
ariston wrote:@fmr: it was in no way aimed at you, I was talking about my RL experiences with classical aficionados.
Is it true that in a concert hall people should behave like in a church? :P


no.
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ariston
KVRAF
 
2831 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat

Postby ariston; Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:48 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Tricky-Loops wrote:
ariston wrote:@fmr: it was in no way aimed at you, I was talking about my RL experiences with classical aficionados.
Is it true that in a concert hall people should behave like in a church? :P


They shouldn't, but oh, they do.

My favourite experience was hearing a concert matinee with Beethoven's 2nd symphony, followed by Edgar Varèse's "Déserts" (now who the hell thought up this particular match?). The audience huffed and puffed so much during the second part that the room temperature increased by 10 degrees. Afterwards, I overheard a fat man say to his decked-out-in-furs fat wife: "All of the REAL composers are turning in their graves."
Mr Arkadin
KVRian
 
1316 posts since 11 Mar, 2003

Postby Mr Arkadin; Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:24 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

fmr, I feel the same way about Mozart. Glad I'm not alone. Actually I seem to hold a lot of the same views as you. The fact you mention Yes and Genesis only confirms this. :D

Now it seems some people have been put off by concerts they have been to. I don't know where you're going, but all I can say is I'm glad I live in London. The South Bank Centre and Barbican are great 'classical' venues. The recent Rest Is Noise series was a great introduction to 'modern classical' for those that have shunned it (tied in with some great BBC4 programmes). I do not recognise the fur-clad woman as the audience I see. Although I do remember a couple of chaps behind me at Glass' Koyaanisqatsi live many years ago saying, "I enjoyed it but did it have to be so jolly loud?" I wanted it louder!

There is little snobbery at these venues or the English National Opera. Turn up in jeans and T-shirt - no dressing up required. In fact you'd probably stand out as a bit of a twat in black tie. Recently a car park in Peckham has been utilised as a venue for modern and old classical. I saw Stravinsky's Rite of Spring there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wBDMsCKwys

I also saw Glenn Branca there last year. He writes for multiple loud electric guitars. He is considered a composer. His works are called Symphonies. With titles like "Describing Planes of an Expanding Hypersphere".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeJfi2tJcNg

Sometimes admittedly people turn up expecting a traditional orchestra and get scared by the loud guitars. Mostly though people are there because they know what to expect. It's about bending those preconceptions that some people here seem to hold also. Let's reclaim the 'c' words 'composers' & 'compositions'. Don't be afraid of them anymore.
jancivil
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9490 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:59 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Tricky-Loops wrote:Is it true that in a concert hall people should behave like in a church? :P
What is that? It's hard to keep quiet and listen during the thing?

But which church? They get kind of excited in some of the churches here.
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fmr
KVRAF
 
2866 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:28 am Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Tricky-Loops wrote:
ariston wrote:@fmr: it was in no way aimed at you, I was talking about my RL experiences with classical aficionados.
Is it true that in a concert hall people should behave like in a church? :P

I don't know where did you get that idea :o Please don't tell me it's another german thing :oops: :hihi:
Fernando (FMR)
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33651 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:38 am Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

jancivil wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:Is it true that in a concert hall people should behave like in a church? :P
What is that? It's hard to keep quiet and listen during the thing?

But which church? They get kind of excited in some of the churches here.


ive never been given wine and wafers at a concert either.
or sung all things bright and beautiful...
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Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8266 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:18 am Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

fmr wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:
ariston wrote:@fmr: it was in no way aimed at you, I was talking about my RL experiences with classical aficionados.
Is it true that in a concert hall people should behave like in a church? :P

I don't know where did you get that idea :o Please don't tell me it's another german thing :oops: :hihi:
Maybe things have changed now (hopefully). But when I was younger (20 years ago) there were only rich people in suit & tie or with expensive sunday clothing and patent-leather shoes in those classical concerts, and if someone had to sneeze, all stared angry at the respective person who got pretty embarrassed and ashen-faced. :o

Since then I hated classical concerts because I didn't want to play rich snob just to get accepted at classical concerts...
Mr Arkadin
KVRian
 
1316 posts since 11 Mar, 2003

Postby Mr Arkadin; Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:30 am Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Again, not sure where you people are/were going to concerts, but since moving to London in 1986 I have never seen this audience you describe and never dressed up (well maybe a clean ironed shirt to impress the ladies). Sure if you go to somewhere like Glyndebourne (where I've worked) then there's lots of black tie and expensive tickets. Actually my Kate Bush tickets are as expensive, so rock has caught up. I see the dressing up as a bit of fun, although it's not mandetory and I used to wear black combats and T-shirt because I was working. But the ladies love a bit of Bond-like black tie, so use what few chances you have to wear it I say. :lol:

Sneezing is not frowned upon, but coughing is. Jeez give me a break from all that coughing. How is it you can go a whole day at the office and not cough once but get to a concert hall and suddenly everyone has the urge to cough? Drink some water and suck a lozenge.

And actually, yes it is refreshing to go to a classical concert where people shut the f**k up, switch off their mobiles and actually listen to the music - unlike every 'rock' gig I go to now where everyone chats through the quiet numbers (and I mean whole converstions) and are only there so they can say they saw such and such a band.

Old man rant ended. :D
DSmolken
KVRist
 
388 posts since 20 Sep, 2013, from Poland

Postby DSmolken; Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:28 pm Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Image

Image
stonestreet
KVRist
 
249 posts since 25 Jan, 2009, from UK

Postby stonestreet; Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:49 am Re: As I mature I'm appreciating classical music a lot more

Mr Arkadin wrote:Again, not sure where you people are/were going to concerts, but since moving to London in 1986 I have never seen this audience you describe and never dressed up (well maybe a clean ironed shirt to impress the ladies). Sure if you go to somewhere like Glyndebourne (where I've worked) then there's lots of black tie and expensive tickets. Actually my Kate Bush tickets are as expensive, so rock has caught up. I see the dressing up as a bit of fun, although it's not mandetory and I used to wear black combats and T-shirt because I was working. But the ladies love a bit of Bond-like black tie, so use what few chances you have to wear it I say. :lol:

Sneezing is not frowned upon, but coughing is. Jeez give me a break from all that coughing. How is it you can go a whole day at the office and not cough once but get to a concert hall and suddenly everyone has the urge to cough? Drink some water and suck a lozenge.

And actually, yes it is refreshing to go to a classical concert where people shut the f**k up, switch off their mobiles and actually listen to the music - unlike every 'rock' gig I go to now where everyone chats through the quiet numbers (and I mean whole converstions) and are only there so they can say they saw such and such a band.

Old man rant ended. :D


My mother likes to do the dressing up and doing the Glyndebourne thing. She loves going to operas and ballets etc. When they were alive she used to take her mothers. On one side there was the smoker addicted to Benilyn and on the other side the false teeth sucker.

She went to some dressed up black tie do the other day. She told me how her partner moans when obligated to dress up. But she also said that once togged up he could not stop looking in the mirror at his splendor.

Way back when me and a couple of mates went to see a guitar recital. We got scorned for showing our appreciation vocally as well as with our hands. Now I have never seen any person up close and live play so fast and accurate. I did not like it however, it did not move me. It did not seem that there was a living entity generating the sounds.
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