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Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?

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Mickey21
KVRist
 
53 posts since 13 Mar, 2013, from Denmark

Postby Mickey21; Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:51 am Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Hey guys.. im quite new to all this music production ! :)..


I was wondering... HOW COME.. that i can put a sausage fattener on my master channel.. and make my track louder.. without the dB going up?..

Is db mainly frequences?.. or what?.. not volume?..
User avatar
Aviram
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Aviram; Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:08 am Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Well, dB is actually a logarithm used to measure a lot of different levels.
you have dBFS (full scale - Peak level in the digital domain), dBSPL (sound pressure level - in the physical world), dBRMS (Root Mean Square - average loudness) dBVU (Volume Units) and a few more...
I encourage you to explore the subject further :)

What you are experiencing when using your "sausage fattner" is actually limiting of the peak level (dBFS) to a certain point while increasing the gain and pushing the quiet parts up, thus raising your average loudness (dBRMS). this is causing the perceived loudness to go higher and it makes your track sound louder.
as a result by the way, you loose dynamic range.

hope this helps :)
cheers,
Aviram
Articles, Videos, Tutorials, Tips & Tricks, Online Mixing
http://MakeMusic.co.il/eng
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arkmabat
KVRAF
 
1952 posts since 5 Nov, 2009

Postby arkmabat; Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:16 am Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Mickey21
KVRist
 
53 posts since 13 Mar, 2013, from Denmark

Postby Mickey21; Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:53 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Thanks for the incredible answer :)..

NeXT question..

I mix my track so its like.. -10 / -04db

Is This level okay?? And!.. Should i turn it up when In done? Close to 0db before sending it to mastering service?.. Or should i keep the peak at -04 dB :)..

Regards Mickey
User avatar
Aviram
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Aviram; Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:59 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

This video I made should answer your question and then some :)
http://eng.makemusic.co.il/master-bus-volume-level/
Articles, Videos, Tutorials, Tips & Tricks, Online Mixing
http://MakeMusic.co.il/eng
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Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8383 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:05 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Mickey21 wrote:Thanks for the incredible answer :)..

NeXT question..

I mix my track so its like.. -10 / -04db

Is This level okay?? And!.. Should i turn it up when In done? Close to 0db before sending it to mastering service?.. Or should i keep the peak at -04 dB :)..

Regards Mickey
If you turn it up to 0 db and send it to mastering, the mastering engineers will shoot you... :o

In any case you should leave them some headroom to work with! :wink:
Mickey21
KVRist
 
53 posts since 13 Mar, 2013, from Denmark

Postby Mickey21; Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:09 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Wow aviram.. Your the man :)!..

As i thought!.. Its good to keep it low to give room for the mastering engineer to process the track :).. So guess ill continue to peak on -4 dB!.. :)..

Do the mastering normal put the track above 0 dB !? So it goes In +?

And what does the term Pre mastering mean? Eq/compress/ and all the mixing stuff before final rendering?
User avatar
Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8383 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:25 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Mickey21 wrote:Do the mastering normal put the track above 0 dB !? So it goes In +?
They might increase the input gain (of the limiter) but they shouldn't go above 0 dBVU on the master bus, otherwise clipping would occur...
Mickey21
KVRist
 
53 posts since 13 Mar, 2013, from Denmark

Postby Mickey21; Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:28 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Then i dont undestand how they can make the track so Loud!.. When its only 04- dB louder than my final mix?
User avatar
Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8383 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:37 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Mickey21 wrote:Then i dont undestand how they can make the track so Loud!.. When its only 04- dB louder than my final mix?
As far as I know, they don't increase the peak level much but mostly the RMS level. So it is perceived louder because the quieter parts are made louder...

Where's Compyfox when you need him? He knows everything about gain-staging and leveling... :D

But to quote Aviram:

Aviram wrote:What you are experiencing when using your "sausage fattner" is actually limiting of the peak level (dBFS) to a certain point while increasing the gain and pushing the quiet parts up, thus raising your average loudness (dBRMS). this is causing the perceived loudness to go higher and it makes your track sound louder.
as a result by the way, you loose dynamic range.
User avatar
Aviram
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Aviram; Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:39 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

You never go above 0 dB, there's just nothing there. 0 dB in the digital domain is the highest you can go, above that you're clipping. Sometimes clipping occurs even when you're peaking below that. Due to something called intersample peaks but that's a whole different story.
Anyway, remember we are in the digital domain and thus when talking about peaks, its always in dBFS.

When talking about dBVU you're entering the analog domain and there you actually can go above 0.

Tricky-loops' quote of me was right on. That's your answer.
Its acheived by limiting the peaks and raising the RMS. Thats in short.
It wont work the same without the right EQ moves, compression and all that mastering voodoo :)
Articles, Videos, Tutorials, Tips & Tricks, Online Mixing
http://MakeMusic.co.il/eng
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Aviram
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Aviram; Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:43 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Tricky-Loops wrote:
Mickey21 wrote:Do the mastering normal put the track above 0 dB !? So it goes In +?
They might increase the input gain (of the limiter) but they shouldn't go above 0 dBVU on the master bus, otherwise clipping would occur...


Clipping occurs over 0 dBFS.

You can go over 0 dBVU.
Articles, Videos, Tutorials, Tips & Tricks, Online Mixing
http://MakeMusic.co.il/eng
Mickey21
KVRist
 
53 posts since 13 Mar, 2013, from Denmark

Postby Mickey21; Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:13 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Wow guys!.. Thank you so much for the brilliant answers!.. Helped out alot!..

Do you know any where i can learn about making the low end of my track powerfull and tight? :)..
User avatar
Aviram
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Feb, 2014

Postby Aviram; Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:18 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Welcome :)

EQ + compression. Given you have a good listening environment and monitoring system for that range.
Articles, Videos, Tutorials, Tips & Tricks, Online Mixing
http://MakeMusic.co.il/eng
User avatar
Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8383 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:21 pm Re: Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..

Mickey21 wrote:Do you know any where i can learn about making the low end of my track powerfull and tight? :)..
Here at KVR... :hihi:


Seriously I've read lot of stuff here, and I probably forgot half of it, m+s techniques, multiband compressors etc. Anyway, the lower the frequency, the less stereo spread it should have, so if you want to have a powerful low end, make it mono!
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