KVR Audio

Mickey21 · Post by **Mickey21** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:51 pm

Hey guys.. im quite new to all this music production !

..

I was wondering... HOW COME.. that i can put a sausage fattener on my master channel.. and make my track louder.. without the dB going up?..

Is db mainly frequences?.. or what?.. not volume?..

Aviram · Post by **Aviram** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:08 pm

Well, dB is actually a logarithm used to measure a lot of different levels.
you have dBFS (full scale - Peak level in the digital domain), dBSPL (sound pressure level - in the physical world), dBRMS (Root Mean Square - average loudness) dBVU (Volume Units) and a few more...
I encourage you to explore the subject further

What you are experiencing when using your "sausage fattner" is actually limiting of the peak level (dBFS) to a certain point while increasing the gain and pushing the quiet parts up, thus raising your average loudness (dBRMS). this is causing the perceived loudness to go higher and it makes your track sound louder.
as a result by the way, you loose dynamic range.

hope this helps

cheers,
Aviram

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:16 pm

Limiting!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 5504,d.aWc

Mickey21 · Post by **Mickey21** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Thanks for the incredible answer

..

NeXT question..

I mix my track so its like.. -10 / -04db

Is This level okay?? And!.. Should i turn it up when In done? Close to 0db before sending it to mastering service?.. Or should i keep the peak at -04 dB

..

Regards Mickey

Aviram · Post by **Aviram** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:59 pm

This video I made should answer your question and then some

http://eng.makemusic.co.il/master-bus-volume-level/

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:05 pm

Mickey21 wrote:Thanks for the incredible answer ..

NeXT question..

I mix my track so its like.. -10 / -04db

Is This level okay?? And!.. Should i turn it up when In done? Close to 0db before sending it to mastering service?.. Or should i keep the peak at -04 dB ..

Regards Mickey

If you turn it up to 0 db and send it to mastering, the mastering engineers will shoot you...

In any case you should leave them some headroom to work with!

Mickey21 · Post by **Mickey21** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:09 pm

Wow aviram.. Your the man

!..

As i thought!.. Its good to keep it low to give room for the mastering engineer to process the track

.. So guess ill continue to peak on -4 dB!..

..

Do the mastering normal put the track above 0 dB !? So it goes In +?

And what does the term Pre mastering mean? Eq/compress/ and all the mixing stuff before final rendering?

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:25 pm

Mickey21 wrote:Do the mastering normal put the track above 0 dB !? So it goes In +?

They might increase the input gain (of the limiter) but they shouldn't go above 0 dBVU on the master bus, otherwise clipping would occur...

Mickey21 · Post by **Mickey21** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:28 pm

Then i dont undestand how they can make the track so Loud!.. When its only 04- dB louder than my final mix?

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:37 pm

Mickey21 wrote:Then i dont undestand how they can make the track so Loud!.. When its only 04- dB louder than my final mix?

As far as I know, they don't increase the peak level much but mostly the RMS level. So it is perceived louder because the quieter parts are made louder...

Where's Compyfox when you need him? He knows everything about gain-staging and leveling...

But to quote Aviram:

Aviram wrote:What you are experiencing when using your "sausage fattner" is actually limiting of the peak level (dBFS) to a certain point while increasing the gain and pushing the quiet parts up, thus raising your average loudness (dBRMS). this is causing the perceived loudness to go higher and it makes your track sound louder.
as a result by the way, you loose dynamic range.

Aviram · Post by **Aviram** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:39 pm

You never go above 0 dB, there's just nothing there. 0 dB in the digital domain is the highest you can go, above that you're clipping. Sometimes clipping occurs even when you're peaking below that. Due to something called intersample peaks but that's a whole different story.
Anyway, remember we are in the digital domain and thus when talking about peaks, its always in dBFS.

When talking about dBVU you're entering the analog domain and there you actually can go above 0.

Tricky-loops' quote of me was right on. That's your answer.
Its acheived by limiting the peaks and raising the RMS. Thats in short.
It wont work the same without the right EQ moves, compression and all that mastering voodoo

Aviram · Post by **Aviram** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:43 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:
Mickey21 wrote:Do the mastering normal put the track above 0 dB !? So it goes In +?
They might increase the input gain (of the limiter) but they shouldn't go above 0 dBVU on the master bus, otherwise clipping would occur...

Clipping occurs over 0 dBFS.

You can go over 0 dBVU.

Mickey21 · Post by **Mickey21** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:13 pm

Wow guys!.. Thank you so much for the brilliant answers!.. Helped out alot!..

Do you know any where i can learn about making the low end of my track powerfull and tight?

..

Aviram · Post by **Aviram** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:18 pm

Welcome

EQ + compression. Given you have a good listening environment and monitoring system for that range.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:21 pm

Mickey21 wrote:Do you know any where i can learn about making the low end of my track powerfull and tight? ..

Here at KVR...

Seriously I've read lot of stuff here, and I probably forgot half of it, m+s techniques, multiband compressors etc. Anyway, the lower the frequency, the less stereo spread it should have, so if you want to have a powerful low end, make it mono!

Making a track louder ? I didnt undestand..