A/B Comparison in Ableton
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 30 posts since 23 Aug, 2008
I was wondering if there is a way to route an audio track to the master channel so that it bypasses the master chain effects? I'd like to be able to hear a piece of audio I imported in without it being further compressed etc by my own effects?
- KVRAF
- 4590 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
Place all your effects in one effect rack and turn it on and off with one click.
Alternatively, you can route your sound to two tracks, one clear and one with FX, and solo one or the other.
Alternatively, you can route your sound to two tracks, one clear and one with FX, and solo one or the other.
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
- KVRAF
- 2938 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling
Here is my Ableton default template. I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".
I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active.
You will see the 1st track on the far left labeled "rf" for reference, and it is routed directly to master. All other tracks (groups in this case) are routed to "premaster".
I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active.
You will see the 1st track on the far left labeled "rf" for reference, and it is routed directly to master. All other tracks (groups in this case) are routed to "premaster".
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Mister Natural Mister Natural https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=164174
- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 28 Oct, 2007 from michigan
that's a very clever solution Bill !billcarroll wrote:I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".
I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active
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https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
- KVRAF
- 2938 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling
Wish I could remember who I learned it from, I'd give them some creditMister Natural wrote:that's a very clever solution Bill !billcarroll wrote:I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".
I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active
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- KVRAF
- 2022 posts since 15 Aug, 2012 from Australia
Ableton probably sounds better than Beebleton.
I'm tired of being insane. I'm going outsane for some fresh air.
- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
others call it master out and sub out but it's always the same idea behind: one for the reference track (the sub) and one for your (the master - with plugin chain). too bad i can't for the hell find a way to have a 2nd out i can use as sub in FL studio.billcarroll wrote:Wish I could remember who I learned it from, I'd give them some creditMister Natural wrote:that's a very clever solution Bill !billcarroll wrote:I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".
I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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UltimateOutsider UltimateOutsider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=216800
- KVRian
- 810 posts since 5 Oct, 2009 from Portland, OR
I've recently been experimenting with a plugin (actually a pair of plugins) called Perception, which are designed to do exactly this: Let you compare the dry vs. processed signal while compensating for both latency and loudness differences. You put the "source" plugin before your effects and the "controller" plugin at the end of the chain. The controller calculates the current loudness and latency deltas, and you can toggle between dry and processed by just clicking the Bypass FX button.
Here's a drum loop playing through Sausage Fattener, a plugin that applies a ton of compression, limiting, saturation, and GAIN to anything you put it on. Note that there's not much of a difference between the AVG and PEAK readings on the meter at the bottom of the screen, because it's getting so squashed. I am currently listening to the processed signal. Also note the "LU DIFF" field- it's currently telling me that there's a whopping 22.4 loudness unit difference between the dry and processed signal, but there's a 0.0 LU difference after compensation is applied.
And now I'm bypassing the effect, and listening to the volume and delay-compensated dry signal. The peak levels are way higher now, but the average volume is about the same (and when I toggle between the dry and processed, I do not hear a volume difference at all, just a difference in the character and tone of the drums).
The 1.0 version of the Perception thing was pretty bugged (didn't work in WaveLab or Cubase for me), but the 1.0.2 version that just came out a few days ago is working great.
Here's a drum loop playing through Sausage Fattener, a plugin that applies a ton of compression, limiting, saturation, and GAIN to anything you put it on. Note that there's not much of a difference between the AVG and PEAK readings on the meter at the bottom of the screen, because it's getting so squashed. I am currently listening to the processed signal. Also note the "LU DIFF" field- it's currently telling me that there's a whopping 22.4 loudness unit difference between the dry and processed signal, but there's a 0.0 LU difference after compensation is applied.
And now I'm bypassing the effect, and listening to the volume and delay-compensated dry signal. The peak levels are way higher now, but the average volume is about the same (and when I toggle between the dry and processed, I do not hear a volume difference at all, just a difference in the character and tone of the drums).
The 1.0 version of the Perception thing was pretty bugged (didn't work in WaveLab or Cubase for me), but the 1.0.2 version that just came out a few days ago is working great.
- KVRAF
- 2022 posts since 15 Aug, 2012 from Australia
I recently recorded the Wombles with Weebleton. They sounded over-compressed and flat
. I shouldn't have run them down first.
. I shouldn't have run them down first.
I'm tired of being insane. I'm going outsane for some fresh air.
- KVRAF
- 2938 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling
I just took a closer look at Perception and it might just be the best mastering A/B plugin out there.UltimateOutsider wrote:I've recently been experimenting with a plugin (actually a pair of plugins) called Perception, which are designed to do exactly this: Let you compare the dry vs. processed signal while compensating for both latency and loudness differences. You put the "source" plugin before your effects and the "controller" plugin at the end of the chain. The controller calculates the current loudness and latency deltas, and you can toggle between dry and processed by just clicking the Bypass FX button.
... snip ....
My Ableton setup allows me to compare a mastered reference track to what I'm working on, which is useful. You could actually use Perception in conjunction with the "premaster" setup. They serve two different purposes.
Perception allows you to compare your mastered (your mastering chain) and unmastered track (without your mastering chain) in real time and it level matches and syncs the audio, adjusting for latency of your mastering chain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHefxyIFSJA#t=60
Perception just went on my "buy" list. Thanks for the recommendation @UltimateOutsider.
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- KVRer
- 28 posts since 2 Sep, 2009
Can't you just select the output of your Audio channel to Ext. Out? it bypasses the master
- KVRAF
- 9569 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
Why not crest s rack with 2 'chains'.
Load your effects on one chain and have the other with no effects, then just use a macro mapped to their volumes and mix from one to the other.
Load your effects on one chain and have the other with no effects, then just use a macro mapped to their volumes and mix from one to the other.
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