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A/B Comparison in Ableton

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

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petew69
KVRist
 
30 posts since 23 Aug, 2008

Postby petew69; Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:17 am A/B Comparison in Ableton

I was wondering if there is a way to route an audio track to the master channel so that it bypasses the master chain effects? I'd like to be able to hear a piece of audio I imported in without it being further compressed etc by my own effects?
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DJ Warmonger
KVRist
 
448 posts since 7 Jun, 2012, from Warsaw

Postby DJ Warmonger; Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:24 am Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

Place all your effects in one effect rack and turn it on and off with one click.

Alternatively, you can route your sound to two tracks, one clear and one with FX, and solo one or the other.
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
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billcarroll
KVRian
 
1279 posts since 9 Dec, 2011, from falling

Postby billcarroll; Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:41 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

Here is my Ableton default template. I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".

I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active.

You will see the 1st track on the far left labeled "rf" for reference, and it is routed directly to master. All other tracks (groups in this case) are routed to "premaster".

Image
petew69
KVRist
 
30 posts since 23 Aug, 2008

Postby petew69; Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:29 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

Thanks for the tips guys, very helpful!!! Maybe in the next versions Ableton will put in a post mix option for the master channel?
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Mister Natural
KVRian
 
1304 posts since 28 Oct, 2007, from michigan

Postby Mister Natural; Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:24 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

billcarroll wrote:I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".

I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active


that's a very clever solution Bill !
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billcarroll
KVRian
 
1279 posts since 9 Dec, 2011, from falling

Postby billcarroll; Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:33 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

Mister Natural wrote:
billcarroll wrote:I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".

I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active


that's a very clever solution Bill !


Wish I could remember who I learned it from, I'd give them some credit :)
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werp
KVRian
 
1018 posts since 14 Aug, 2012, from Australia

Postby werp; Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:40 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

Ableton probably sounds better than Beebleton.
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dea-man
KVRian
 
557 posts since 7 Nov, 2009

Postby dea-man; Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:56 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

What of Ceebleton or Deebleton?

Quebleton?

Zeebleton?

Bitwiggleton!
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41067 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:13 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

dea-man wrote:What of Ceebleton or Deebleton?

Quebleton?

Zeebleton?

Bitwiggleton!


You do know people are looking for you over at the reaper forums, right?
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murnau
KVRAF
 
2696 posts since 13 Jan, 2005, from Deutschland

Postby murnau; Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:46 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

billcarroll wrote:
Mister Natural wrote:
billcarroll wrote:I setup a "premaster" channel with all of my mastering chain. The master channel stays completely empty of plugins. Using this method you can simply add an audio track and route it to master to bypass and the processing on "premaster".

I deactivate the sends on "premaster" to remove latency that would exist if the sends were active


that's a very clever solution Bill !


Wish I could remember who I learned it from, I'd give them some credit :)


others call it master out and sub out but it's always the same idea behind: one for the reference track (the sub) and one for your (the master - with plugin chain). too bad i can't for the hell find a way to have a 2nd out i can use as sub in FL studio.
“Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more” ― Nikola Tesla
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UltimateOutsider
KVRist
 
339 posts since 4 Oct, 2009, from Portland, OR

Postby UltimateOutsider; Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:47 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

I've recently been experimenting with a plugin (actually a pair of plugins) called Perception, which are designed to do exactly this: Let you compare the dry vs. processed signal while compensating for both latency and loudness differences. You put the "source" plugin before your effects and the "controller" plugin at the end of the chain. The controller calculates the current loudness and latency deltas, and you can toggle between dry and processed by just clicking the Bypass FX button.

Here's a drum loop playing through Sausage Fattener, a plugin that applies a ton of compression, limiting, saturation, and GAIN to anything you put it on. Note that there's not much of a difference between the AVG and PEAK readings on the meter at the bottom of the screen, because it's getting so squashed. I am currently listening to the processed signal. Also note the "LU DIFF" field- it's currently telling me that there's a whopping 22.4 loudness unit difference between the dry and processed signal, but there's a 0.0 LU difference after compensation is applied.

Image

And now I'm bypassing the effect, and listening to the volume and delay-compensated dry signal. The peak levels are way higher now, but the average volume is about the same (and when I toggle between the dry and processed, I do not hear a volume difference at all, just a difference in the character and tone of the drums).

Image

The 1.0 version of the Perception thing was pretty bugged (didn't work in WaveLab or Cubase for me), but the 1.0.2 version that just came out a few days ago is working great.
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werp
KVRian
 
1018 posts since 14 Aug, 2012, from Australia

Postby werp; Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:05 am Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

I recently recorded the Wombles with Weebleton. They sounded over-compressed and flat
. I shouldn't have run them down first.
My avatar is fat and lazy, I'm 11 pixels narrower but just as lazy.
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billcarroll
KVRian
 
1279 posts since 9 Dec, 2011, from falling

Postby billcarroll; Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:03 am Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

UltimateOutsider wrote:I've recently been experimenting with a plugin (actually a pair of plugins) called Perception, which are designed to do exactly this: Let you compare the dry vs. processed signal while compensating for both latency and loudness differences. You put the "source" plugin before your effects and the "controller" plugin at the end of the chain. The controller calculates the current loudness and latency deltas, and you can toggle between dry and processed by just clicking the Bypass FX button.

... snip ....


I just took a closer look at Perception and it might just be the best mastering A/B plugin out there.

My Ableton setup allows me to compare a mastered reference track to what I'm working on, which is useful. You could actually use Perception in conjunction with the "premaster" setup. They serve two different purposes.

Perception allows you to compare your mastered (your mastering chain) and unmastered track (without your mastering chain) in real time and it level matches and syncs the audio, adjusting for latency of your mastering chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHefxyIFSJA#t=60

Perception just went on my "buy" list. Thanks for the recommendation @UltimateOutsider. :)
aroundtown
KVRer
 
13 posts since 2 Sep, 2009

Postby aroundtown; Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:02 pm Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

Can't you just select the output of your Audio channel to Ext. Out? it bypasses the master
VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
 
3595 posts since 16 Dec, 2002, from over there

Postby VariKusBrainZ; Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:03 am Re: A/B Comparison in Ableton

Why not crest s rack with 2 'chains'.
Load your effects on one chain and have the other with no effects, then just use a macro mapped to their volumes and mix from one to the other.

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