What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

antithesist
KVRian
 
1036 posts since 8 Feb, 2012

Postby antithesist; Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:38 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

hibidy wrote:
kmonkey wrote:Guys these are really good sounding EQs. You should really try them out. They easily outperform other plugins in this Neve area (it's my imho of course).

Maybe. But the rent is too high!

LOL... isn't that "TOO damn high?"
Image
WEASEL: World Electro-Acoustic Sound Excitation Laboratories
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41978 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:46 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

haha! It's who I was thinking of......couldn't remember.
kmonkey
KVRAF
 
3264 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Postby kmonkey; Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:18 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

Hahaha good joke. I agree that summ it up totally. Rent is too high, i don't like their jam stupid points and all that. But this time try to put that aside and just use a plugin. Forget for IK forget for everything just try to test it under your studio context. You'll be amazed on what their pulled of here..

I am recommending plugin from the point of musicality and kinda next step in plugin modelling. I am not going to say it's a game changer and that stupid nonsense. All i am saying is that this is marginally better (to my ear) then most of what i tried in the past three years. That include UAD, blabla. And under "better" i mean it is totally in different league. I am aware i am using marketing buzzwords but this is due the lack of my english.

By all means i am honest - if you are in position please try a demo.

These are wonderful and add something special. Last time when i had that moment was when Nebula was released and when i used Nebula EQ...holy crap this is more then three years isn't it..holy crap i am getting too old too fast..awwww..
kmonkey
KVRAF
 
3264 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Postby kmonkey; Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:26 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

sergiofrias wrote:Thank you Compyfox,you are correct on every statement...but still i believe my quest would be solved by having the developers comparison plots, imho it's the only way to know if they modeled correctly the nonlinearities of the hardware (that they have at their hands) :D.


Please allow me to say that once in a time i used to think exactly like you. That hopefully changed (you will realize it later). I even gave a disrespectful name to myself.

Anyway to the point. I think your passion is right and you seek for right answer but you really need to look it from more views. With that being said i know it is sounding stupid and a bit cliche but i have heard (aren't we all) that no two Neve EQ sound exactly the same.

I am not defending anyone here - to clear that out

But if no two units sound exactly the same - isn't it pointless to seek and try to match two sine sweep plot fro mdifferent two units - each one built with vastly different DSP approach - to look the same?

Again i am with you. If someone is selling something under name this and that - it should sound like this and that. But maybe indeed it is sounding like the unit it was modeled on but sadly we'll never know.

So you can test it and see does it do something nice for your music (i think this release infact does) or is it just another EQ in ocean of sameish EQs..


edit:i see you commented on two units not sounding the same. Sorry didn't saw it before. btw i never liked waves scheps 73 and most of their EQ's sound same to me. That waves scheps 73 is totally dull and lifeless in the lack of better description. IT's my imho. My guess is is that they only likely emulated EQ curves and their "nonlinearity" and DRIVE thing is kinda same shared across many plugins with different percentage. Like i said my imho not a fact.
sergiofrias
KVRist
 
233 posts since 22 May, 2009, from Portugal,Azores (faial island)

Postby sergiofrias; Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:21 am Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

kmonkey wrote:
edit:i see you commented on two units not sounding the same. Sorry didn't saw it before. btw i never liked waves scheps 73 and most of their EQ's sound same to me. That waves scheps 73 is totally dull and lifeless in the lack of better description. IT's my imho. My guess is is that they only likely emulated EQ curves and their "nonlinearity" and DRIVE thing is kinda same shared across many plugins with different percentage. Like i said my imho not a fact.


I feel the same thing about waves scheps 73,the magic of 1073 eq was not only the curves but the warm tone(frequency response) and harmonic distortion .The frequency response it's very flat compared to t-racks,another thing that i noticed on scheps 73 was that the line preamp was very subtle (input at max) maximum harmonic distortion: only 2.761% "Klirr" , compared to to t-racks Line Preamp maximum Harmonic distortion: 88,41% "Klirr"

scheps 73 Mic preamp max harmonic distortion: 20,86% "Klirr"

t-racks Mic preamp max harmonic distortion: 77,19% "Klirr"

if you want to achieve more distortion on scheps 73 mic preamp you have to use the "drive" option(only avaible to MIC not to LINE) wich gives a maximum of an absurd 128,3%"Klirr". this method is kind of lame because i have to take more time controlling both the input slider,"drive option on/off" and preamp red knob to achieve similar results to t-racks (using one knob only) so t-racks it's a clear winner against waves emulation on the usability.But how much can the real unit distorts it's unknown to me,but it's good to have more saturation at our hands :) .
...want to know how to program great synth sounds,check my video tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/user/sergiofrias25
soulata
KVRAF
 
2622 posts since 6 Dec, 2002, from Ljubljana/ Slovenia

Postby soulata; Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:31 am Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

kmonkey wrote:All i am saying is that this is marginally better (to my ear) then most of what i tried in the past three years. That include UAD, blabla.


Nothing against IK (this time he he) but shelling out 100$ for "marginally" better EQs is a waste of time and money at least for me.

I dig the EQ curves and the GUI and I guess a lot of work's been put into this, but what can this EQ do so much better one'd gladly fork over 99 eur or so.

I have Softube's Trident, IK's Pultec (I preffered UAudio's but sold the cards) and StudioOne's ProEQ for the things those two can't fix. Why more than that?

Although, if I did not have the ones mentioned I'd probably go for the '73.

Cheers,

k
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41978 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:13 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

The scheps 73 resonated with me straight away. Between the gain staging, the layout, and getting a sound I liked out of it I felt comfy with the money I spent on it. Who knows, maybe this one is better but right now if I demo one, I need to demo both and 250 bucks for two eq's that I probably don't need is just not really appealing to me.

Again, that's not to knock the product, but I have to admit had they have had an introductory price (like the 432) I'd have been more inclined to try them. Plus many of my IK plugs are a bit more cpu heavy (which is still a big deal in studio one for example even with my computer)
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11507 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:50 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

sergiofrias wrote:...i noticed on scheps 73 was that the line preamp was very subtle (input at max) maximum harmonic distortion: only 2.761% "Klirr" , compared to to t-racks Line Preamp maximum Harmonic distortion: 88,41% "Klirr"

scheps 73 Mic preamp max harmonic distortion: 20,86% "Klirr"

t-racks Mic preamp max harmonic distortion: 77,19% "Klirr"


Hold on, actually the lower the "Klirrfactor" (distortion factor) the better/the more linear the sound post preamp. A high "Klirr" can mean, that there is either a reference level involved with a certain device (and therefore outputting higher THD percentage values), or it's just not a good distortion module that was used (less linear).


The audiophiles usually go by "the lower, the better" (especially on a playback amp) - but this alone can be a really tricky thing. We also have to analyze the harmonics, and most notably use our ears (subjective impression). A high THD device can sound better than a low THD device to certain people. Especially if it's used at a reasonable work level (read: the "hotspot", or in other words - at or below the given reference level).


So in order to have an objective analysis, we need a test signal at a lower level (i.e. -18dBFS - which I still haven't managed to pull off in C.Budde's Plugin Analyzer - the Advanced Mode just doesn't like me) and then compare. Why? Because one developer says "we have a fixed reference level at x dB" another one says "our reference level is variable" and another says "funk it, our plugin is internal 32bit float point anyway - so our reference level is 0dBFS".

You have to take that into consideration.
Going by plain THD plots, you can only give assumptions, you'll never be sure.


As example:
The screenshot of the hardware you posted on page 4 uses a -6dB RMS test signal. Obviously the unit itself is either very forgiving, or it has a different set up reference level (in voltage), a good ADC (which barely colors the sound), etc. So the noise floor is low, the THD values are low (probably also in terms of percentage).

Compared to the IKM creation we have a way higher noise floor (which can influence the measurement) and no real clear harmonics.

I just took a dive into my backups, and found a plot of the Slate VCC plugin in "Neve" mode (Brit-N). The THD was -70,04dBFS at the time I took the snapshop, the THD-N was -55,99dBFS and the Klirrfaktor (distortion factor) was a mere (hold your horses) 1,774% (at full drive of additional +6dB it was 2,379%). And you still clearly noticed that this plugin was engaged. Also if you barely went over the reference level (i.e. -18dBFS).

As example of two very noisy (tube type) consoles: the Abbey Road REDD (Waves) or the RCA Victor Broadcast (Slate VCC): the REDD.17 has a "Klirr" of 7,367%, the REDD.51 of about 5,1225%, the VCC RC-Rube 29,6%. Yet if you only go slightly over it's hotspot, you hear these devices working.



If it's more "saturating" (pleasantly distorting) more to you, then it's a subjective thing. But technically, the Scheps Plugin, the hardware, Slate VCC and the Nebula preset are definitely more "linear".


You can't really go by values alone - there are so many factors that need to be taken into consideration.
kylen
KVRAF
 
2041 posts since 18 Sep, 2003, from West Virginia USA

Postby kylen; Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:12 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

I use VST Analyzer with some of my Nubula presets and like to mess with the gain down to -18dbfs rms to find the ever changing sweet spots. Don't know if that would work for you Compyfox but I stick freeg and nebula inside DDMF Meta plugin inside VST Analyzer so I can gain stage it. It's pretty wild what goes on inside things when you hit them hard or soft...as we know.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11507 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:23 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

That sure is an alternative - but VST Plugin Analyzer has an "Advanced" mode. Christian Budde once told me that you can shift the frequency there, and the signal level of the test tone.

Unfortunately that never worked for me. If it would, then testing plugins at different frequencies might reveal stuff like Aliasing easier. At least the tool is not crashing on me anymore if I switch to 96kHz.

Though I should maybe see if there was a silent update - and there is still hope for VST Plugin Analyzer v2. Maybe this year with the KVR Developer Challenge? I'd definitely vote for it.
Novalis
KVRist
 
212 posts since 18 Sep, 2013

Postby Novalis; Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:14 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

Just two suggestions for improvement:

- the center frequencies should be selectable directly, by clicking on them (now you have to turn the knobs)

- a button to link the input with the output
(increasing the input reduces the output, and vice versa)

Thanks :)
kylen
KVRAF
 
2041 posts since 18 Sep, 2003, from West Virginia USA

Postby kylen; Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:29 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

Compyfox wrote:...and there is still hope for VST Plugin Analyzer v2...

that would be nice but I wonder if Christian is off doing other things, this has been in the works for a while. I might even donate towards it again if there were some news... :(
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11507 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:34 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

Last time I had contact with Christian, he was stuffed with both work outside of programming, and family.

The only thing I'm really looking forward to in v2, might be a proper manual this time around. Maybe a better working VST3 loading capability, and maybe a different tool to measure hardware.


But... enough OT. :tu:
Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
 
3832 posts since 15 Aug, 2006

Postby Funkybot's Evil Twin; Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:07 pm Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

Peter, is there a Neve (ahem, "British Classic") bundle on the way? I'm surprised that with 3 plugins out, the bundle wasn't released on launch.
User avatar
Peter - IK Multimedia
KVRAF
 
4023 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Postby Peter - IK Multimedia; Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:54 am Re: EQ 73 and EQ 81 New T-RackS Custom Shop classic British EQ models released

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:Peter, is there a Neve (ahem, "British Classic") bundle on the way? I'm surprised that with 3 plugins out, the bundle wasn't released on launch.

I'm not aware of any plans to, but thanks for the suggestion :)
SampleTank 3 now shipping!
New T-RackS gear
iLoud portable Bluetooth speaker
"SampleTank 3 - Hot Hot VSTi...it is my go-to for everything. It's like my credit cards, I can't work without it." - Teddy Riley
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Effects