hi all
is it possible?
Latest News: Bitwig updates Bitwig Studio to v5.1
Create send from one Fx Track to another FX Track
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Andrei Marchenko Andrei Marchenko https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=312360 - KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 803 posts since 12 Sep, 2013
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- KVRist
- 39 posts since 27 May, 2010 from Venice beach
+1
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- KVRist
- 235 posts since 22 Aug, 2010 from Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Yep, that's a bummer. No insane feedback routings possible yet…….pdxindy wrote:There are no sends on FX Tracks..._leras wrote:Why not? You say that like it's official...pdxindy wrote:No can do...
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- KVRAF
- 6305 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin
I currently can't imagine they will go down that alley (allowing Feedback), since it's pretty much impossible to make it work with PDC.
For feedback and going wild, I'd think it makes more sense to use one of the nodal hosts that are available as VST and allow feedback loops. Much more flexible too.
And Groups are coming...
Cheers and happy easter!
Tom
For feedback and going wild, I'd think it makes more sense to use one of the nodal hosts that are available as VST and allow feedback loops. Much more flexible too.
And Groups are coming...
Cheers and happy easter!
Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
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- KVRAF
- 4501 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest
an insertable send device unit like the Fruity Send also wood be good https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHe ... 20Send.htm
ok, I know PDC, feedback etc. I can imagine that it would be an overkill, but maybe can be a good one on the non-fx tracks (and on the Drum machine pads etc.)
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat
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- KVRer
- 19 posts since 4 Nov, 2004
This is the main reason I haven't bought Bitwig. I love to send effects to other effects, and to send back on themselves.
I am aware that in Bitwig some device chains have a feedback path for inserts, but it's sadly very limiting compared to the modular matrix which Ableton's return/ send facilities can offer. For example: I can feed a saturated->equalised delay back on Itself, and also send a little of that outcome to a reverb, and send a little of the reverb back into the original delay. Etc, etc. also, in the case of the return-send matrix, I can see the feedback routing amounts on the main interface.
It was a bit disappointing to see the newcomer modular DAW not allow feedback, or complex routings.
Hopefully when version 2 arrives the modular part will overcome the limitations and I'll be able to construct a modular matrix in a device lane, but until then it's all too limited.
I am aware that in Bitwig some device chains have a feedback path for inserts, but it's sadly very limiting compared to the modular matrix which Ableton's return/ send facilities can offer. For example: I can feed a saturated->equalised delay back on Itself, and also send a little of that outcome to a reverb, and send a little of the reverb back into the original delay. Etc, etc. also, in the case of the return-send matrix, I can see the feedback routing amounts on the main interface.
It was a bit disappointing to see the newcomer modular DAW not allow feedback, or complex routings.
Hopefully when version 2 arrives the modular part will overcome the limitations and I'll be able to construct a modular matrix in a device lane, but until then it's all too limited.
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- KVRer
- 4 posts since 16 Dec, 2013 from United States
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xbitz wrote:
https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHe ... 20Send.htm (https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHelp/html/plugins/Fruity%20Send.htm)
ok, I know PDC, feedback etc. I can imagine that it would be an overkill, but maybe can be a good one on the non-fx tracks (and on the Drum machine pads etc.)
+1 on this. Or maybe I'm missing something. I want to rout my Kick drum track to a send with different effects before(or in between) the effects on that track. So I can do stuff like
Kicksample>eq>effectsend>compressor>differenteffectsend>delay>mainbus for example.
All in all, routings seem a bit limited in some ways. Of course an insertable send and a modular container (like a Rack in Tracktion) would solve all of this.
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- KVRist
- 209 posts since 15 Oct, 2013 from Florida
I have no desire for sends to sends...as it's largely impractical and would make PDC a nightmare to manage on the devs end...so I dearly hope they don't compensate PDC for the sake of such an esoteric feature with nominal real world use, the effects of which can probably be closely approximated by other means...I would think the feedback effects sections of some of the devices would allow this, especially when the modular system is open. Insertable sends on the other hand would be great. Big +1 for insertable sends.
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- KVRist
- 235 posts since 22 Aug, 2010 from Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Regarding Feedback & PDC, how or why would that be impossible Thomas?ThomasHelzle wrote:I currently can't imagine they will go down that alley (allowing Feedback), since it's pretty much impossible to make it work with PDC.
For feedback and going wild, I'd think it makes more sense to use one of the nodal hosts that are available as VST and allow feedback loops. Much more flexible too.
And Groups are coming...
Cheers and happy easter!
Tom
Nodal hosts available as VST's….hmmmmm, you got me curious here...can you name them? I'm still looking for one.
PDC….well, 95% of the time i make ambient drone soundscapes, don't really care for it then.
But i can imagine my 5% HipHop production side to be worried about it when i want everything to have rock solid timing.
So yeah, +100000000 on PDC and Send FB routings plus some other really necessary stuff i won't go into right now...
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- KVRAF
- 6305 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin
Well, Feedback is basically an endless recursive loop. If something with latency is inside the loop, this latency will be added on each loop. So how much latency does this construct have? 
I'm with you on the "not everything needs PDC", I personally am not worried by it much either, but since it's so important to many people and one of the things that sets Bitwig apart, it could only be an option where you get a popup asking: "Are you sure you want to do this? Your timing will suck"
As for Nodal Hosts:
- Plogue Bidule is rather light on CPU, can do a lot, doesn't have a very inspired GUI but for constructing things on the more static side it's great, not so much for live performance, since you can't create your own GUI Layout.
http://www.plogue.com/products/bidule/
- The old Usine 5.x was available as VST and you can build your own Performance GUI with it. Really great for Ambient stuff. The current version Usine Hollyhock should get a VST version too, but the timeframe is unknown.
http://www.sensomusic.org/usine/
- Free, nice and rather simple - but I don't think it allows for Feedback: ImageLine MiniHostModular.
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHel ... odular.htm
- EnergyXT is said to be available as VST and have a node environment - never tried it though.
- And then there are several VSTs that aren't complete hosts but more VST Chainers but modular as well so they may or may not allow Feedback.
- I heard FL Studio is available as VST too?
As much as I understand the wish to do everything in one place with native tools, for some stuff 3rd party plugins not only offer a solution right away but may even open up new venues and possibilities. Especially if one goes a bit outside of the trodden paths...
Cheers,
Tom
I'm with you on the "not everything needs PDC", I personally am not worried by it much either, but since it's so important to many people and one of the things that sets Bitwig apart, it could only be an option where you get a popup asking: "Are you sure you want to do this? Your timing will suck"
As for Nodal Hosts:
- Plogue Bidule is rather light on CPU, can do a lot, doesn't have a very inspired GUI but for constructing things on the more static side it's great, not so much for live performance, since you can't create your own GUI Layout.
http://www.plogue.com/products/bidule/
- The old Usine 5.x was available as VST and you can build your own Performance GUI with it. Really great for Ambient stuff. The current version Usine Hollyhock should get a VST version too, but the timeframe is unknown.
http://www.sensomusic.org/usine/
- Free, nice and rather simple - but I don't think it allows for Feedback: ImageLine MiniHostModular.
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHel ... odular.htm
- EnergyXT is said to be available as VST and have a node environment - never tried it though.
- And then there are several VSTs that aren't complete hosts but more VST Chainers but modular as well so they may or may not allow Feedback.
- I heard FL Studio is available as VST too?
As much as I understand the wish to do everything in one place with native tools, for some stuff 3rd party plugins not only offer a solution right away but may even open up new venues and possibilities. Especially if one goes a bit outside of the trodden paths...
Cheers,
Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
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- KVRAF
- 25421 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Some of the Bitwig devices have feedback... and since it is planned for v2 for the underlying modular environment to be user accessible, I am guessing more will then be possible, even if not send looping...ThomasHelzle wrote:
As much as I understand the wish to do everything in one place with native tools, for some stuff 3rd party plugins not only offer a solution right away but may even open up new venues and possibilities. Especially if one goes a bit outside of the trodden paths...
Cheers,
Tom
edit: another modular environment that allows audio feedback plus a lot more is Numerology (OSX only). It is an incredible sequencing environment and is especially good for controlling hardware.
