System reinstall ... daaamn, any tips?

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Hi all,

I'm sorry if that was discussed before, but this thing is irritating me a lot.

Recently, my 3 years old system needed re-install. Projects and sample contents are ok, I keep them in fixed folder structure, so that's just about coppying between drives. But the plugiiiiinnsssss. I kid you not, I've spent two freaking days installing, licensing and re-registering all the plugins. ...and few are still left! Total count of plugins I use, freeware and payware combined, is about 50.

What's worrying me is, that people still develop awesome new stuff, but I need the old stuff for legacy reasons, for reopening oooold forbidden projects. That could mean that in few years, those two days can easily become a week. :D

And even if I forgot about new stuff, how do you guys approach this task? Do you create bit copies of freshly installed system? Or just clench your teeth and give it the time?
Evovled into noctucat...
http://www.noctucat.com/

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I grit my teeth and give it the time. And I have a zillion plugins... Takes forever.

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The only solution is to have a 'ghost'ed image of your system partition backed up, in a 'clean slate' state. This usually necessitates partitioning up your hard drive so that you don't have all your documents, audio files blah blah on the same partition as your OS and programs.
The best way to manage this is to use the partition-backup software of your choice (see sticky at top of this forum for a whole bunch) and back it up Right NOW.

Then, at some point in 6 months time, when you've gone through and installed a bunch of new stuff, back it up again. If you've installed/uninstalled a heap of crap that's clogging up your system, instead revert to the prev backup and reinstall all the new stuff you kept.

Do this every 6 months.
You'll be fine.
I use the freeware Savepart but it's too complicated for most people.

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I have Acronis True Image do automatic system drive backups every week (this includes all data/project files) to a dedicated backup HD installed in the PC.

I also have a daily task scheduled to do a Robocopy backup of all my data files and my sample drive to a network drive. (It only copies new or changed files, so usually only takes a couple minutes to run.)

I also sometimes sit down and go through my existing finished projects to make sure everything loads and plays okay. If there's something I'm concerned about (say, a hardware synth I think I might retire or a plugin I think might be on its last legs, life-cycle-wise), I will freeze those tracks so that no matter what happens, I'll always at least have an audio record of what things are supposed to sound like.

But even with all of the above, I sincerely dread getting a new DAW PC. Some of my plugins and apps have limited activations, and others are just plain tedious to install/activate.

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Good idea with partitioning. I'll do it next reinstall. Well I'm btw also pretty pathetic about backups, so I use Bvckup utulity to mirror my projects every three hours. (I travel a lot, so chance of failure is real, I want to have as up to date backup as possible.) ...just that activations. Soooo damn long. I think my current computer will do it's last round with this installation, but next time, I'll do that partitioning thing for sure!

I'm also considering a dedicated archival HDD or space, that would be used to save future-proof projects. That would mean all tracks frozen. Too bad Ableton will not freeze sidechained and return hannels.
Evovled into noctucat...
http://www.noctucat.com/

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Even better than partitioning is using separate drives. The problem you can run into is that an OS or disk crash can leave you with a drive that is not only unbootable, but partitions that are no longer recognized. With separate drives, an OS or disk crash leaves all others in perfect shape. Using disc imaging is the way to go, but after a disk crash you don't want to lose months of work and other data.
ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US - Google

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling
http://danling.com

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FarleyCZ wrote: ... Total count of plugins I use, freeware and payware combined, is about 50.
Lucky you have around 50, I am still finding plugs missing 3 months after reimaging. I really should have catalogued what I have a bit better! That's GAS!
UltimateOutsider wrote:I have Acronis True Image do automatic system drive backups every week (this includes all data/project files) to a dedicated backup HD installed in the PC.

I also have a daily task scheduled to do a Robocopy backup of all my data files and my sample drive to a network drive. (It only copies new or changed files, so usually only takes a couple minutes to run.)

I also sometimes sit down and go through my existing finished projects to make sure everything loads and plays okay. If there's something I'm concerned about (say, a hardware synth I think I might retire or a plugin I think might be on its last legs, life-cycle-wise), I will freeze those tracks so that no matter what happens, I'll always at least have an audio record of what things are supposed to sound like.

But even with all of the above, I sincerely dread getting a new DAW PC. Some of my plugins and apps have limited activations, and others are just plain tedious to install/activate.
I think I am going to go down the True Image route.

I'd also agree that freezing the tracks is a good idea but I've also recently wished that I'd captured screen shots of, for instance Synth settings, so I can try and recreate the sound from retired VSTs on plug ins that I'm using currently. Its useful if you are not good at programming synths like me as it can take you to a ball park sound even if you are on a different synth.
I often tell myself to get a little more organised but oddly, I also seem to regulalrly ignore my own good advice!

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FarleyCZ wrote:Good idea with partitioning. I'll do it next reinstall.
If you use a partitioning app like GpartedMagic or BootitNG, you can resize your existing partition and then create other partitions on the same drive. So there's no need to wait until your next install.

Gonga wrote:Even better than partitioning is using separate drives. The problem you can run into is that an OS or disk crash can leave you with a drive that is not only unbootable, but partitions that are no longer recognized. With separate drives, an OS or disk crash leaves all others in perfect shape.

Not actually true at all,
in the event of a drive crash, you have an equal chance of either your OS drive or data drive dying, so you gain nothing by having the additional drive.
In the event of an OS crash or other hardware crash, whether the file allocation tables become corrupted depends on which drive was being written to at the point in time, how far along the write was and what it was writing. So that's equally 50/50 in terms of which drive gets trashed.
At best you gain a 50% chance of not losing your data, but it's a meaningless statistic. In the event of a hardware crash, power spike, PSU dying or even an OS crash, you could conceivably lose both drives, at the same time...

The best case scenario is backing up your meaningful (non-OS, non-program) data to an external drive or online server every week. Only then do you separate your work environment from your data security.

If you're looking at *Performance* however, there are advantages to partitioning your drives also - a guide is here, including details on how many additional drives is advantageous in a DAW scenario:
http://www.xpfree.org/partitioning_for_daws.htm

Cheers-

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metamorphosis wrote:
FarleyCZ wrote:Good idea with partitioning. I'll do it next reinstall.
If you use a partitioning app like GpartedMagic or BootitNG, you can resize your existing partition and then create other partitions on the same drive. So there's no need to wait until your next install.

Gonga wrote:Even better than partitioning is using separate drives. The problem you can run into is that an OS or disk crash can leave you with a drive that is not only unbootable, but partitions that are no longer recognized. With separate drives, an OS or disk crash leaves all others in perfect shape.

Not actually true at all,
in the event of a drive crash, you have an equal chance of either your OS drive or data drive dying, so you gain nothing by having the additional drive.
In the event of an OS crash or other hardware crash, whether the file allocation tables become corrupted depends on which drive was being written to at the point in time, how far along the write was and what it was writing. So that's equally 50/50 in terms of which drive gets trashed.
At best you gain a 50% chance of not losing your data, but it's a meaningless statistic. In the event of a hardware crash, power spike, PSU dying or even an OS crash, you could conceivably lose both drives, at the same time...

The best case scenario is backing up your meaningful (non-OS, non-program) data to an external drive or online server every week. Only then do you separate your work environment from your data security.

If you're looking at *Performance* however, there are advantages to partitioning your drives also - a guide is here, including details on how many additional drives is advantageous in a DAW scenario:
http://www.xpfree.org/partitioning_for_daws.htm

Cheers-
"Not actually true at all" - this is strong language.

If you have two drives, in the event of a drive crash, one of them (OS or data) still works. If you have everything on only one drive, nothing works.

Let's say you have an OS crash, and you need to restore an image. If using one drive, all data that has changed since your last backup will be gone forever. If your data is on a second drive none is lost. This is a significant advantage, and one which many people have benefitted from many times.

It has been my experience that most users with lots of experience with lots of systems and hard drives prefer multiple drive setups over single drive setups, whether RAID or not. Very few advocate single drives with multiple partitions over multiple drive setups, particularly not for use by novice users.

You are of a different opinion, which is fine, but the facts I stated previously, are still factual (except where I said multiple drives are "better" - an opinion), and "true at all."
Last edited by Gonga on Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US - Google

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling
http://danling.com

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FarleyCZ wrote:Hi all,

I'm sorry if that was discussed before, but this thing is irritating me a lot.

Recently, my 3 years old system needed re-install. Projects and sample contents are ok, I keep them in fixed folder structure, so that's just about coppying between drives. But the plugiiiiinnsssss. I kid you not, I've spent two freaking days installing, licensing and re-registering all the plugins. ...and few are still left! Total count of plugins I use, freeware and payware combined, is about 50.

What's worrying me is, that people still develop awesome new stuff, but I need the old stuff for legacy reasons, for reopening oooold forbidden projects. That could mean that in few years, those two days can easily become a week. :D

And even if I forgot about new stuff, how do you guys approach this task? Do you create bit copies of freshly installed system? Or just clench your teeth and give it the time?
I just experienced this too (see my thread on the matter http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p5714915 )

I like a clean install.. but the downside is it does take several days to get everything reinstalled again.. that is after the partitioning, windows reinstallation, and OS patching.

My solution here is to stop downloading every free synth or effect and to consolidate plugins from different vendors (that is buy from a select group where possible). Also, I try not to buy stuff when on sale even if it is a good deal simply because it is a good deal. I see A LOTTTTTT of people doing that (here and on other various sites).. it seems like a common problem to buy when on sale for the sake of the sale. :hihi:

One issue I am having, however, is some developers rename their plugins on versions, so there is no real way to keep using just the new and improved (which I wouldn't mind as long as it doesn't alter the sound). Another issue is in keeping up with the different versions and the fact that some plugins that do keep the same name do sound different between versions. It can become a mess.

Perhaps the easiest solution is simply to draft an ITB setup - Host, Synths, Effects, Sample Libraries.. etc and then lock that setup... don't add.. don't upgrade.. don't touch it. But then you would be missing any useful updates that come along since we know that most dev houses believe in rapid development than a final, super polished product.

The even easier solution is simply to suck it up and take 2-3 days to reinstall when you need to. Unless you go the full backups solution. But what happens when your OS version changes? Your datas are now locked to that OS setup (At least on windows). Oops again.

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Btw MiniTool Partition Wizard Home Edition is a nice, free partitioning software that I use on my Windows builds.

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Gonga wrote:"Not actually true at all" - this is strong language.

If you have two drives, in the event of a drive crash, one of them (OS or data) still works. If you have everything on only one drive, nothing works.

Let's say you have an OS crash, and you need to restore an image. If using one drive, all data that has changed since your last backup will be gone forever. If your data is on a second drive none is lost. This is a significant advantage, and one which many people have benefitted from many times.

It has been my experience that most users with lots of experience with lots of systems and hard drives prefer multiple drive setups over single drive setups, whether RAID or not. Very few advocate single drives with multiple partitions over multiple drive setups, particularly not for use by novice users.

You are of a different opinion, which is fine, but the facts I stated previously, are still factual (except where I said multiple drives are "better" - an opinion), and "true at all."
I'm with Gonga on this one.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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Yeah, but he talks about having multiple harddrives. It is true, for sure, but it solves the problem just in case of dive crash. Unfortunatelly system can crash or be slowed down due to various other reasons which second drive won't help me at all. It's usefull for safety though, yeah.
Evovled into noctucat...
http://www.noctucat.com/

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Well, pulling data from a separate drive than your OS and programs are on will give you a significant speed boost as well, since the system can retrieve data off multiple drives simultaneously. In the case of non-SSD drives, the hard drive speed is one of the worst speed bottlenecks on a system. Also, by not cluttering your OS drive with so many reads and especially writes, your OS drive should become more reliable and less fragmented, lowering the chances of OS or program crashes. Also, backups and restores of just the system drive will be much faster, more convenient and you'll be more likely to do them more often, since there's less data on the drive, while you only need to back up your data drives when they've changed significantly (much less often). In fact, my data drives tend to last a very long time, often 5-6 years or more (though large traditional drives these days have shorter useful lives than they used to - they no longer last 4 years), because they are not used as much as the system drive (an SSD). A typical hard disk often only lasts two-three years or so (sometimes less) these days if it's the only drive in a system. I can't tell you how many times I've replaced hard drives while they were still under warranty over the years, which is why I always buy WD drives for backup / storage these days...they have a good warranty (though the warranty with their new 4TB Green drives is now only 2 years). For me, Seagate drives have been less reliable and Hitachi more reliable over the years, but Hitachi drives are a bit expensive, so I use those for critical 7200rpm applications such as music projects or libraries.

Put your OS and programs on an SSD and image it as soon as it's all good. Use that as a starting point for a clean re-install of Winders.

Then install all your plugs, etc, and do an image of that.

At least that's what I do. This way you just need to update them. I look at the dates of images and updates so I know whether an image needs a particular update or not.
ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US - Google

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling
http://danling.com

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2 drives and put users, program and program data folders on the second.
A minor scale is a major scale starting 3 half steps down from the major and visa versa. Any Chord has as many versions as it has notes.

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