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Well, another iLok drama unfolding

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
 
24837 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.

Postby Hink; Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:43 am Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

djanthonyw wrote:Here are the employees that work for Pace. Everyone should write them a nice message:

http://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/f?type= ... 8021057052


sadly I suspect they would do the same thing you or I do with junk email. It's not just ilok though that does this, I think a lot of companies dont want to be bothered or [i]pestered[i/] by customers. I went through this during the winter with Santander bank, I call my bank and I get a call center. I ask "please give me the number for your corporate headquarters" and I get "I'm sorry we're not allowed to give that out". So I ask can you please send me a letter verifying the whatever discussion and I get "we have no mechanism in place to do that"...me: "well can you send me an email" and I get "no we cannot do that either"...for me that was it and on May 5th my transfer to a credit union will be complete and I am dumping my "big bank". How do I know that the rep at the call center has been properly vetted? This is amy money, I need and deserve to know who has it...or so you would think

I think this is a downside to the internet, it became so easy to get the numbers to the executives and the executives say "I dont want be bothered with this shit, go ask it on a forum where we dont have to pay people to help you" Very rarely do I find customer service that I am satisfied with unless it's a small business with a small staff. (like the credit union, I dont even have a 1-800 number for the credit union. I have branch numbers and the number to their HQ in Fitchburg and that's a 978 number) You would think the big companies would have the resources to hire better customer service but the little guy will be up all night trying to put out fires while the big companies just turn their backs and hope the fire burns itself out at no cost to them...welcome to the disposable world where nobody cares "just buy another" :?

I'm so glad to be done with any dongles, I never had problems but I'm glad I dont have to worry about it now...I guess I dodged a bullet or ten.It does seem to me that one of these days pace is going to take a hit that sinks them. I see a lot of companies leaving dongles behind. Almost exactly two years ago I was still running Samp 11, I had two dongles justto use Samp (codemeter), one for Samp and one for Yellow Tools Indy Pro, why they could not put it on one dongle eludes me. But when I upgraded to a 64 bit machine I updated to Samp Pro X with no dongles. My ilok only has one no-brainer on it, Waves GTR3.5 (which I have not installed since I got the new machine two years ago) and AVOX 1 which was the biggest waste of money I ever spent on any music gear...so good riddance all the way around. :)
New Song LBS
User avatar
Aloysius
KVRAF
 
11073 posts since 11 Aug, 2008, from Alto Icon

Postby Aloysius; Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:52 am Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

tapper mike wrote:Recently I bought a yamaha thr10 with a version of cubase installed. I went through the install process only to find out later that... like all Steinberg products it requires iLok. Screw that, into the recycle bin it went.


Steinberg dongle is not the same as iLok. Get back down to that recycle bin asap.
I feel like Buddha Holly
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41565 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:43 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

I'm really surprised by this. Just another reason I'll keep my old dongle away in storage and not ever get ilok2.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11372 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:07 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

I'm not the least surprised about the answers...


Karten wrote:How about all the professionals out there who rely on these plugins on a daily basis, who have deadlines, and can't work because of this?


Why do these so called "professionals" sync with their iLok account if they have deadlines and a very delicate setup running?

Rule No 1 if you're in the middle of a project:
a) create backups
b) don't touch anything (do not install anything additionally, do not add futher tools)

Up until this day, I have NEVER seen the iLok manager automatically connecting to the internet and syncing/deleting data. I always had to connect myself. Furthermore, unless you have like 10k licenses on an USB stick, you should easily see what a license is time locked and what is not.


So unless you have a NEED to update - especially during delicate work and deadlines - just don't. What is written in here and over on the AVID board sounds definitely like a server glitch (quote robotmonkey: "it was indeed their doing").

Who is to blame?
If you're on a tight schedule, first and foremost the user. Then iLok if they are stubborn (which they are since the hate towards them during the iLokalypse). And finally the third party dev (the company where the software is from), should they not be able to help you.

Even then, if you didn't try to sort the issue out first (and went all out), then there is no right for a constant negative vibe. Developers have a right to protect their software. I wrote it once in an earlier anti-iLok hate thread: I'd love to see as much hate towards C/R. But this is only flaming up once a developer dies or drops off the planet and you're sh*t out of luck with your purchased software. Neither do you read anything about developers, that ask for "annual fees" for updates or even the "allowance" to use a certain piece of software.

Just... wasted time on nothing IMO.



The OP of the AVID thread might have been run into a fraud or something. But the rest clearly looks like a server issue.

So instead of blaming the CP system again (that the 3rd party software developers buy into on purpose!), get in touch with both the software company in question, and iLok. One of these people will be able to sort it out.

Once again - I don't get all the drama.



ZenPunkHippy wrote:I would take Compyfox's analysis more seriously if he actually RTFA (at the DUC forum) instead of commenting on the thread title and what other commenters have said!


I read it - most of it.

Again:
- glitch by Pace/iLok, get in touch with iLok and the software company in question. The latter has a longer lever towards the CP provider (software dev's customers are forked over, developer can bring iLok to book). That iLok gives a funk is not okay, but heck... they never gave one in the first place. And for several years, it was totally cool with most users (not anymore it seems).

- ran into a fraud (eBay) - get in touch with eBay. Personaly I do not(!!!) trust eBay sales in terms of software anymore (unless boxed and sealed, or I can pick it up in person). I found too many people that sold illegal copies. The OP in question (DUC board) stated he was using the Cranesong Phoenix software. Cranesong is (if I saw that right) still usable on iLok1. Even though most cracks these days of iLok1 CP'd software are not bound to an iLok. But who knows what is possible in terms of cracks these days.

If it wasn't a fraud, you surely (hopefully) still have the receipts to say "here, I bought it, legit! I even paid the transfer fees!" (which definitely already existed in 2005). Then iLok is just stubborn, but such issues can be sorted out through the software developer (in this case, Cranesong, AVID, Brainworx, etc).


- in the rare occasion that the server was hacked (wasn't there some debate regarding the "Heartbleed bug/exploit" recently) - then it is an iLok issue, and they are fully to blame. In this case - also contact the 3rd party dev - they need to reissue you a new license. ZDT or not.



Seriously...
Less drama, more thinking, more communication.

I understand the hate towards USB CP systems. But until this day, Wibi, Syncrosoft (since Cubase 4) and iLok2 are the most secure and most trouble free piece of software/hardware I've ever used in terms of "license management".

Maybe I was lucky in the last couple of years. But I never had an USB key fail (the one key I sold to a Berlin KVRian and was then declared as "damaged by iLok" was not due to my fault! I even confirmed that it worked ta my place), neither did I have a sync glitch.

The one time I though I had lost a license, was easily cleared within the course of two days (48hours, end of the week) and three mails absolute max.



Using plain USB keys as "license key" (Brainworx and Waves come to mind) never really worked for me - since you still needed to route the plugin to the "license". In case of the known three USB CP systems - I only need to install and I can start working.

And again... I checked my iLok account with my v2 stick - I have a couple of Brainworx licenses on there - they were NOT taken from me. If they would have been, I'd already be in touch with the CEO of Brainworx. Same with Slate Digital.

Though even then I would have enough alternate software to cover a certain downtime. Should I need to.



hibidy wrote:I'm really surprised by this. Just another reason I'll keep my old dongle away in storage and not ever get ilok2.


Has nothing to do with the USB key - it has to do with the servers and syncing your stick.
User avatar
Sendy
KVRAF
 
4452 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Postby Sendy; Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:21 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

Regardless of whose fault this all is, this is an example of how getting involved in the war between the makers (devs) and the takers (pirates) can be disasterous for the paying customer. I know what it's like to have a project not load because of a missing plugin, and it's terrifying and enraging all at once.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp!
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11372 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:40 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

Yes it is - regardless of all that.
But it's definitely not the end of the world.


Furthermore - what would you have done if you'd rely on hardware, and your "main tool of choice" was failing? Who is to blame in this case?
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41565 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:47 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

Ok, I read all of this and then compy comes along and now I'm confused! :lol:

@end of the world: You honestly don't think that if I had an ilok and lost a bunch of licenses I paid full price for that it would be something to shrug off, do you?

@contact: I thought that was one of the problems, they won't allow you to discuss it with them or anyone else?

@synching: Squirrel please, people sync their iloks all the time. Nobody has ever thought "well, pace might be deleting licenses so I better not sync. That's just not right.
User avatar
Karten
KVRian
 
1186 posts since 1 Mar, 2010, from Paris

Postby Karten; Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:56 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

Compyfox wrote:Furthermore - what would you have done if you'd rely on hardware, and your "main tool of choice" was failing? Who is to blame in this case?
If the hardware manufacturer could disable your gear remotely and say "it's in your studio but it's an error."?
Vincent @ Ghostwave Audio
Soundbanks for Synplant, Sylenth1, DUNE, Ultra-Analog and more - www.ghostwaveaudio.com
User avatar
masterhiggins
KVRian
 
604 posts since 30 Dec, 2004

Postby masterhiggins; Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:58 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

Does anyone know if the Steinberg eLicenser (not iLok) can deactivate licenses too? I'm wondering if I should be ditching that as well.

-Sam
User avatar
Karten
KVRian
 
1186 posts since 1 Mar, 2010, from Paris

Postby Karten; Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:03 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

masterhiggins wrote:Does anyone know if the Steinberg eLicenser (not iLok) can deactivate licenses too? I'm wondering if I should be ditching that as well.
AFAIK, they can't.
Vincent @ Ghostwave Audio
Soundbanks for Synplant, Sylenth1, DUNE, Ultra-Analog and more - www.ghostwaveaudio.com
User avatar
masterhiggins
KVRian
 
604 posts since 30 Dec, 2004

Postby masterhiggins; Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:09 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

Karten wrote:
masterhiggins wrote:Does anyone know if the Steinberg eLicenser (not iLok) can deactivate licenses too? I'm wondering if I should be ditching that as well.
AFAIK, they can't.


Thanks. I hope you're right. The only plugins I purchased for eLicenser I purchased directly from Waldorf or Jrrshop and can provide proof of purchase so I'm not super concerned with that I guess. But Pace...yeah I think I'm going to be ditching it. Sorry Softube.

-Sam
metamorphosis
KVRAF
 
3447 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:20 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

robotmonkey wrote:Just another example in a long list why iLok and similar copy protection systems are a complete sh*t and fundamentally a punishment for paying customers.


I'm not against copy protection - steam does it well.
Izotope does it well.
Even tracktion used to do it well (they still may do, I have no idea).
So, it's not a copy protection issue, it's a specific-company issue.
XP/Vista/Win7/Win8 Optimisation, DAW Tips, AudioXP - XPFree
I made an oddly-acoustic album and an electronica thing and an alt-metal doohicky...
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11372 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:29 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

hibidy wrote:@end of the world: You honestly don't think that if I had an ilok and lost a bunch of licenses I paid full price for that it would be something to shrug off, do you?


Of course not - so I'd get in touch with the support of the company I got the plugins from, or registered to. Since that is the way to go in the first place IMO. iLok is only providing the technology, but the licenses are handled remotely from the devs.

Unless there is a server hickup.


hibidy wrote:@contact: I thought that was one of the problems, they won't allow you to discuss it with them or anyone else?


If iLok refuses support, handle it through the software developer. They pay fees to Pace/iLok, they can basically put a gun on their chest.


hibidy wrote:@synching: Squirrel please, people sync their iloks all the time. Nobody has ever thought "well, pace might be deleting licenses so I better not sync. That's just not right.


Again - you don't need to sync every day unless you need to do an update (even then, I'd do it "post" an important job, if ever) or add a new license. I also recommend to dig around a bit on Google in terms of what happened with Nomad Factory and their Abbey Road plugins (I think it was a TG Console type plugin). There was also no warning, and the licenses were pulled off of the user accounts.

There was also a lot of sh*tstorm about that - though Nomad Factory apologized and said "we can't do anything about it - legal stuff, yadda yadda". And then, things turned down over time.

Nowadays, nobody seems to care other than "iLok is funking up - especially since iLok2/the License Manager".



Karten wrote:If the hardware manufacturer could disable your gear remotely and say "it's in your studio but it's an error."?


Again... we have to differentiate if it was on purpose or a glitch. And it can't be ported over to hardware - sorry. I gave failing hardware as example of another "worst case" scenario - but similar rules apply: locked out of working, you need to wait, etc.


If hardware goes up in smoke, you're just a funked. But people don't go as much haywire - I mean, what can you do other than getting in touch with a tech and hope that he has a time slot available at 2am in the middle of the night - just 1 hour before you have to finish your piece for your client. If he then says "no can't do" - what then?

But if a piece of software stops working... basically hell is breaking loose.


Either way - communication is key indeed. And this is the only thing that can be critisized towards Pace/iLok IMO. Same with the iLokalypse... Pace/iLok didn't communicate, but they were working on the issue as well as it was possible to them.

That it took them up to two weeks for some users, is a different issue.
User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
21484 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:33 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

tapper mike wrote: like all Steinberg products it requires iLok. .


facts, who needs 'em, eh?
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
User avatar
masterhiggins
KVRian
 
604 posts since 30 Dec, 2004

Postby masterhiggins; Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:40 pm Re: Well, antoher iLok drama unfolding

Compyfox wrote:Either way - communication is key indeed.


PACE e-mail wrote:Please do not contact ilok.com support; unfortunately they will not be able to assist you.


PACE deserves a big f**k you right there.

-Sam
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