MIDI Controllers just a toys?

[lmexx]

Hi! I'm young newcomer producer who wants to make a career in EDM (Progressive House). I've watched a lot of Future Music videos where big guys shows how they work. The guys like Avicii, Nicky Romero, SHM, Hardwell etc...And none of them use any kind of MIDI controllers to work with. Only a simple MIDI keyboard and a mouse. But reading a lot of forums i see people get crazy about all types of MIDI controllers. So is this really just for fun and for those who wants just play around with shiny things? Why big House guys never use it? Im not sure if i need to spent money on things which will be useless for serious production.

[dsan@mail.com]

Even a simple MIDI keyboard is a controller - technically speaking. And from what I have seen in front of those you mention when performing, yes, they use controllers.

But maybe you have a different interpretation of what a controller is and does.

It's simple, nobody is saying to you what you have to have, regarding equipment, so if you feel it is useless to you, don't spend the money.

Personally, I use controllers to make the work easier. For example, it's a lot easier to turn a dial to adjust an LFO or similar than it is to push a mouse and drag a setting. It's a lot easier pushing a slider than dragging with the mouse in the DAW....is it beginning to get more clear?

Knobs and sliders are easier to work with than mice. YMMV

JM2C

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[lmexx]

How it can be easier if you have to switch your attention from a screen to something else? And why if its easier they don't use it in studio?

[dsan@mail.com]

I switch my attention for maybe....a millisecond? Of course you have to look where you're going. But then the attention is back on screen while I make the adjustment.

I'm strictly working in studio...no more gigging me for

Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to visit with these artists in studio so I have no idea what they are or not doing.

Consider too, in the heat of a moment, are they fumbling with a mouse to adjust their equipment? I seriously doubt it.

I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other. Just trying to get you to realize controllers are not toys; rather, they are tools.

You have to decide which tools do you want to work with. Someone else cannot decide that for you.

I think though to call them toys is just not to way to view it. But it is all subjective and personal to the individual.

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[KGZM]

If you learn to use a hardware synthesizer you'll probably get a better feeling for why midi controllers are desirable. You'll find what your synth does well and what it does poorly in terms of control and you'll think about being more hands on when you're at your computer.

Even a single control(knob, fader, wheel, touchstrip/pad, foot pedal, infrared sensor) can be great to have when you're.. for example.. recording automation. Two controls are even better: You can only mouse one parameter at a time, while you can turn knobs for two and explore their combined effect on the sound at different values and even find and refine repeatable motions that achieve the effect you want. Taking a purely analytical mouse and keyboard approach makes such things a bit harder to achieve experimentally, you have to know more about what you want beforehand, and it's easier to get that experience manipulating physical controls than drawing automation in and mousing one parameter at a time. Many people prefer a tactile interface when making music.

Your entire system can be an instrument if you approach it that way.

[lmexx]

Yes i see...But my main fear to invest time in such workflow when everyone on forums are talking about it but i never seen anybody from EDM top artists (well im talking about House/Progressive) who use it in the studios. And i watched a lot of such "behind the studio" videos. Not even a mention of this!

Im talking about Push, Launhchpads, NI Machine etc..

P.S. Well Nicky Romero told he owns Machine but he told he never really turned it on lol

P.P.S And i fear that instead of actually making tunes i might become one of those who just play around with gear just for fun

[pdxindy]

Yes i see...But my main fear to invest time in such workflow when everyone on forums are talking about it but i never seen anybody from EDM top artists (well im talking about House/Progressive) who use it in the studios. And i watched a lot of such "behind the studio" videos. Not even a mention of this!

Im talking about Push, Launhchpads, NI Machine etc..

P.S. Well Nicky Romero told he owns Machine but he told he never really turned it on lol

P.P.S And i fear that instead of actually making tunes i might become one of those who just play around with gear just for fun

You can certainly make great music without a variety of controllers. I have a nice old keyboard (Korg Z1) which I use as a midi controller. I also have a Push which I just love.

It takes some time to learn how you like to work. Everyone will buy some things that they end up not using or finding helpful. That is just part of the process. Having a controller or two is not any sort of problem. The real problem is constantly thinking that some new controller or software is going to make your music better. You are the important element.

[humanbeingbeing]

It's not just easier. There are several benefits. 1. You have 10 ten fingers if you're lucky, so you automate multiple things at the same time, and you find better sounds when multiple things are being automated at once... a mouse can only move one knob at a time. 2. It sounds better than automation because it captures the human feel and emotion of the player, it's like playing an instrument. 3. I use several lemurs, and I quite frequently have up to 10 finger on X/Y controllers which can control 24 axis of automation AT ONCE.. it makes it sounds alive and it makes it much easier to find your sweet spot.... 4. tricks & effects that are impossible any other way, I used to build my drums using legato switching on the APC to compose entire new drum compositions... I also used to assign multiple sample loop points to a single knob for some crazy glitch effects.... take a lot of these FM bass artists right now, using operator or FM8, like Skrillex and such, that whole technique is based on setting up multiple FM modulations and controlling them with a mod wheel..... thats another thing, different controllers have a different feel... a mod wheel has a certain action that sounds different, a pitch wheel can be used for more than just pitch bends, reassign it to a formant or a +24 pitch up, the advantage is that the pitch wheel snaps back, so it has a natural envelope to it, good for those pitchy sounds like Major Lazer... a foot controller will make you work differently and therefore sound differently, a wii remote has a unique action that sounds unlike anything else because of it's accelerometer... knobs have a different action than faders, I'm in a dub reggae band, and it's a well known technique to use faders to send sounds into delays, it works better because it fades into the delay.... another quick example, Bitwig has these synth drums that are decent, it is MUCH easier to fine tune your drums to match each other effectively using knobs, one twist at a time is a very time consuming process and relies too much on your memory and perception rather using your ears to get it right. Combined with a good sound card with good DACs and decent monitors, you're going to be getting much sounds...

[Redmerkurii]

switch your attention from a screen

I think this is the point of controllers, they free you from listening with your eyes.

[rod_zero]

There are 4 types of controllers on the market:

1. Midi keyboards, these are usefull if you know how to play, if not the ir use is límited to testing sounds.

2. All in one: midi keyboards with knobs faders and pads. This one in my opinión are quite bad, they are not ergonomic, Its a PITA to map them and they always lack a proper number of controls, most have 8 knobs and 8 faders which is not enough for controlling a synth.

3. Performance oriented controllers: As the APC, some Livid instruments, fader fox, midi fighter, etc. These normally are designed to be used for live performance in which they will be assigned to specific functions so mapping them isn't so much of a pain. Normally useful if you know why you got it.

4. Hardware/software integrated: Maschine, Push and MPC. These are recent and have been very successfully because they help with the most difficult part in a computer based set up: composing. They are way more useful because of their deep hardware/software integration and design, they make more easy to compose and do complex operation without a mouse. I think their use decreases in the mixing stage but for what they are designed they are worth.

I wil strongly suggest trying push or Maschine, they are not required but they add a fun element to making music.

[servolenkung]

Hello imex,
i can tell you, you are right. Only view persons using them, mostly hobby artists or professionals using it live. Most of the controllers you really dont need. Just a keyboard with a view knobs or the launchpad. The rest is all sales pitch by the industry! And all that analog shit that is so modern right now!The guys who are wearing beards right now are the guys who buy this stuff like crazy because this stuff has just the same elitist charisma as their iphone.....
I remember the times i used this analog stuff... don´t wanna have the good old times back again.....
Nowadays you can make the same sound with a vst as with an analog synth. That are old myths..... times are changing! Nobody hears a difference, except the guys that hear a fly cough . But you will never hear a hit by them because they are busy with hearing......or they are still searching for the perfect 808 sound.......
But many artist have the old analogsynths, why?? Because they bought it! Many of them bought them as there were no vsts, or not so good vsts. They didn´t sell it because they know how to use it and found their way to work with it. And everybody likes it when a visitor stands reverent in his studio and says "Oh you have the original!?! You are great!"

Made the mistake to buy a nektar......mouse is more convenient!

But there is one Hardware-controller i can recommend! It´s the SparkLE Drummachine! Hybrid Hardware and software vst. Best of both worlds! Makes really fun and speeds up workflow!

[lmexx]

Hi servolenkung
Yeah that was i thoght too...

I have a friend who bought himself a lot of this fancy controllers, and he always send me 15 seconds clips of some random shit he made using "without mouse" as he said. And i know a lot of people who makes full tracks with just a mouse in 1 day and release it on big labels.

So i came to conclusion its all about marketing. They make money on hobbyists with all this touch the sound fake idea. While amateurs tweaking knobs, professionalls work hard with the mouse i guess...

[rod_zero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTu195xu0WY

From there you can just use the mouse for sound design and mixing, but for that part of music production, composing and getting the first ideas out, controllers as Push and Maschine are really good and fun, and in fact they speed up the process.

They are also quite new, that's why you don't see them that much in studios but it's getting there too.

[The LT]

Registered just to answer the guy,

1. Stop taking everything forgranted. Use your brain. Those "big guys" you mention aren't really worth anything to an adjacent musical crowd. They are only "big guys" in your imagination. As are "big labels". Again, they're only "big" in your head. Once you spend a couple of years in this industry you'll see what I mean.

2. Don't believe what you see in the videos. Most of the entourage you see isn't actually the way people work.

3. Adapt and develop YOUR OWN style. Some people work with the mouse, some work with controllers. Some people I know don't even use MIDI and play everything into the daw as audio. Don't blindly assume the "big guys" have a clue. Most of them, as a matter or fact, don't. You have to trust me on this. On the other hand, your "15-second piece of crap" guy may just have a clue. It's not a controller problem, it's the problem with him not trying hard enough to finish his work.

4. If you don't have the money - work with the tools you have. I've started producing in the mid 90s and there was no such thing as VST back then. Trust me, you can make EVERYTHING on a simple laptop nowadays if you have a firm understanding what you're after. But this "understanding" takes a while to develop, much like any sense.

5. Practice makes perfect. Just do whatever it takes to make stuff that YOU LIKE. Not stuff that is "hot". Again you have to trust me on this, but those "big guys" aren't here to stay. In a decade there will be a whole new line-up and those "avicii-whatever" dudes will be forgotten all along. Your knowledge and experience on the other hand, along with your personal style, may make you a name and a reputation that will last much longer than the current trends you're seemingly after.

6. If you seriously plan to be a professional "progressive house" producer and expect to make a living out of it, I seriously suggest you reconsider. Educate yourself, learn your tools and aspire to be a professional producer in other, more serious genres. Look into the film/movie industry or videogames.

[dsan@mail.com]

Words of wisdom LT

Thanks for joining and sharing your thoughts.

The OP has received some valuable information in all these posts. I am hopeful this person has the wisdom to gather the knowledge and make good use of it.

It is true, you may not need a controller. You may not want a controller.

Nothing wrong with thinking so.

But don't get caught up in thinking that what you see in those videos is gospel. Consider please, that video was made for one reason only - promotional material.

And I can promise you, if the controller manufacturer will pay that celebrity to promote their goods, you will see controllers are over the place in those videos.

Things are not always how they seem to be, especially on film. You see what someone wants you to see.

Make up your own mind what you want to produce, how you want to produce it and what tools you want to work with. If controllers are not for you so be it.

Happy Musiking!
dsan