Bitwig

lmexx · Post by **lmexx** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:49 pm

The LT wrote:Registered just to answer the guy,

6. If you seriously plan to be a professional "progressive house" producer and expect to make a living out of it, I seriously suggest you reconsider. Educate yourself, learn your tools and aspire to be a professional producer in other, more serious genres. Look into the film/movie industry or videogames.

I agree with you on all points...But why you suggest to reconsider this? Can you pls explain more?

llze · Post by **llze** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:42 pm

isn`t it all toys basically?

Redmerkurii · Post by **Redmerkurii** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:59 am

I use N.I. Traktor a lot, whether playing out live or using it in combo with Ableton Live in my bedroom studio.
I'm currently using six different controllers just for Traktor. The program itself is a beast and really needs hands on control to get the best out of it. Just using a mouse with it would make it an absolute dog of a program to use. I have a dedicated controller for my lighting system, again I would be lost without it. For Ableton I use a Midi Keyboard controller plus a Launchpad both of them absolutely invaluable for working in Live.
I must admit that I've always been a hardware guy, I started in the early 90's as a piss poor student way before the VST standard and just around the time when getting 8 tracks of audio into a computer was cutting edge. It wasn't until 2000 till I even bothered with a computer, a 13 year old Atari ST that was used as a Midi sequencer only lol. Midi controllers at that point too were few, limited and somewhat expensive.
Nowadays the choice is immense with a deep level of integration on some units as has been pointed out. Touch screen control via the P.C or Ipad/android unit with wifi Midi has also expanded control possibilities.
My question is that with so many tools available now (you can use your phone FFS) why would you limit yourself to just a keyboard and mouse?

humanbeingbeing · Post by **humanbeingbeing** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:22 am

maybe it would help to just reflect on the fact that a mouse is a controller and so is a keyboard... this thread has some wisdom in it but I think this is another one of those classic musical debates that need not happen

powermat · Post by **powermat** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:22 am

Experimenting with chords is way easier on hardware than point and click. And by easier, I mean faster.

The faster it is from brain to paper (DAW in this case), the more accurate and true to the original thought they will be.

My 2 cents.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:54 am

powermat wrote:Experimenting with chords is way easier on hardware than point and click. And by easier, I mean faster.

The faster it is from brain to paper (DAW in this case), the more accurate and true to the original thought they will be.

My 2 cents.

a mouse is hardware...

powermat · Post by **powermat** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:58 am

pdxindy wrote:a mouse is hardware...

you really don't get the point of my post? or are you trying to look like a

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:12 am

powermat wrote:
pdxindy wrote:a mouse is hardware...
you really don't get the point of my post? or are you trying to look like a

With his logic all synths are hardware then..

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:18 am

humanbeingbeing wrote:maybe it would help to just reflect on the fact that a mouse is a controller and so is a keyboard... this thread has some wisdom in it but I think this is another one of those classic musical debates that need not happen

Always scary when someone tries to dictate what is ok to debate and what is not

A mouse and keyboard, great for controlling typing of words and clicking folders. In theory you could take an 88 note keyboard and map it with the alphabet and suddenly you have an ok way to type. No need for a qwerty keyboard! And also, for graphical design, instead of a digitized pen, you could connect a dj controller and spin da wheel! It IS a controller, right? Let's reflect on that!

powermat · Post by **powermat** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:27 am

Crackbaby wrote:With his logic all synths are hardware then..

Quickly experiment with chords (including voicing) with just a mouse. Include velocities in your experimentation (in case you want to use your computer keyboard), including velocities that you have in mind, not just random. Do all of this as quickly as a midi keyboard/analog synth/pads with velocity and pressure sensitivity.

I'm sorry, but no one will convince me that a mouse and computer keyboard are as quick with experimentation.

But you do you. I'm good with what I've got.

humanbeingbeing · Post by **humanbeingbeing** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:32 am

Crackbaby wrote:
humanbeingbeing wrote:maybe it would help to just reflect on the fact that a mouse is a controller and so is a keyboard... this thread has some wisdom in it but I think this is another one of those classic musical debates that need not happen
Always scary when someone tries to dictate what is ok to debate and what is not
A mouse and keyboard, great for controlling typing of words and clicking folders. In theory you could take an 88 note keyboard and map it with the alphabet and suddenly you have an ok way to type. No need for a qwerty keyboard! And also, for graphical design, instead of a digitized pen, you could connect a dj controller and spin da wheel! It IS a controller, right? Let's reflect on that!

True dat....I think maybe you're taking my point and elaborating on it OR you're taking my point and flipping it on it's head.... I did make an earlier post that kinda talked about how certain controllers are more appropriate for some things than other things....we're talking about interfaces, I don't think a midi keyboard is the best interface for typing... I don't think a keyboard is the best interface for playing a melody... a mouse is a pointing device... if you have a knob on a piece of hardware or a VST or something, then surely the most appropriate interface for that knob is a knob.... but to be honest with you, I feel silly discussing this.... I've written tracks with a keyboard and mouse, I've used wii controllers, I've built my own multi touch tables, I have an APC, 2 lemurs, several midi controllers, foot controllers, etc etc. there is a 'need' (desire) for qwerty keyboard,because if you used a midi controller for typing, it's gonna be a pretty shitty experience.... if anyone is arguing that we're all set with interfaces, I think all they need to do is look at the fact that the world of interfaces (nevermind 'controllers') is constantly evolving and there are hundreds of companies trying to improve user experience with new and evolving interfaces, ya know, one day we'll be interfacing directly with our brains, all of these existing interfaces have their virtues, some are more appropriate than others.... every year at NAMM or Musikmesse you witness the evolution of midi controllers.... APC MK2 is an improvement over Mk1, etc. etc. etc. forever and ever.

humanbeingbeing · Post by **humanbeingbeing** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:34 am

Crackbaby wrote: Always scary when someone tries to dictate what is ok to debate and what is not

I'm afraid I will have to take exception to this line because first of all, I didn't say it's not OK to debate this.... I said there is no need to debate it... you guys can go ahead and debate it all you want... I'm no dictator

and are you actually scared?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:27 am

powermat wrote:
Crackbaby wrote:With his logic all synths are hardware then..
Quickly experiment with chords (including voicing) with just a mouse. Include velocities in your experimentation (in case you want to use your computer keyboard), including velocities that you have in mind, not just random. Do all of this as quickly as a midi keyboard/analog synth/pads with velocity and pressure sensitivity.

I'm sorry, but no one will convince me that a mouse and computer keyboard are as quick with experimentation.

nobody is trying to convince you. In fact nobody is themselves saying that.

The mouse, qwerty keyboard and computer screen are hardware devices that we use to interface with the software. So is a midi controller. Use the tools that you find useful.

There are situations where the mouse is my favorite tool to experiment with. I remember using hardware synths that were "mouse-free" and with all the nested menus on little lcd screens were a nightmare to program sounds on.

Now I see people working hard to get off the mouse and imo, using a method that is often harder. No way I want to design my Zebra presets on my Push by having dozens of pages to scroll through to get the parameters I want. I can see them all right on the screen and edit them swiftly and efficiently with the mouse. I think with the current impulse to go mouse free, there is a tendency to throw away a good hardware device (mouse) that is better for some stuff.

And yes, when I want to play chords, I use my Korg Z1 as a midi controller, or I use my Push.

2klo · Post by **2klo** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:08 am

Hi Imexx,
check out some videos with Madeon. It might change your mind about controllers.

lmexx · Post by **lmexx** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:24 am

Hi 2klo!

I did and what i see is he making mashups of his already produced tracks...maybe i saw something wrong?

Bitwig

KVR Audio

MIDI Controllers just a toys?