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How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)

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Gonga
KVRAF
 
1796 posts since 27 Feb, 2011

Postby Gonga; Tue May 13, 2014 5:29 pm How does Vocaloid work exactly?

I'm really interested in Vocaloid, but Yamaha's website is really unclear as to how the process works. Apparently, you need to "import off-vocal wav data." That's clear :ud:
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https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling
DSmolken
KVRist
 
375 posts since 20 Sep, 2013, from Poland

Postby DSmolken; Tue May 13, 2014 11:01 pm Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Also interested... I wonder if Vocaloid (or something Vocaloid-like like Cadencii) could be used to make a death metal vocal library. Not that I'd have any use for such a thing myself...
ntom
KVRAF
 
2124 posts since 18 Oct, 2010, from Texas

Postby ntom; Tue May 13, 2014 11:10 pm Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocaloid

(didn't read the article cause I am on my way to bed)
If I remember correctly there was extensive sampling of vocal sounds that are then processed by a synth engine and resynthesized based on the MIDI notes and words typed in.

IMO, it sounds like shit, but I do love me some Hatsune Miku :D
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Gonga
KVRAF
 
1796 posts since 27 Feb, 2011

Postby Gonga; Wed May 14, 2014 5:37 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Yes, it sounds really weird, but then I like that. That's the point...eerily human-like but clearly not. I love the stuff Michel Sanchez (ex-Deep Forest) has done with this type of stuff.

I still don't understand why you need to begin with wav material...anybody?
ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US - Google

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling
chroma
KVRian
 
505 posts since 10 Jan, 2010

Postby chroma; Wed May 14, 2014 6:23 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

don't know... i have it, but have hardly used it (daughter is into hatsune miku/vocaloid, was cheap on sale, can't resell). it has a VST interface, but i haven't made any sense of that at all, there isn't much in the VST, and vocaloid 2 is 32-bit only afaik.

in the main standalone interface, you can just type words, and place them against a grid of note/time (per syllable), and then export that as wav. pretty easy to use. here's a picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B_r_V ... Editor.jpg

if you buy it, it will probably come with a library you are going to use. if you want to make your own library (which i'm not sure how to do, but it's possible) then you'll need to give it some input material; guessing that's what you're talking about?
deastman
KVRAF
 
3994 posts since 6 Aug, 2003, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby deastman; Wed May 14, 2014 6:29 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Gonga wrote:Yes, it sounds really weird, but then I like that. That's the point...eerily human-like but clearly not. I love the stuff Michel Sanchez (ex-Deep Forest) has done with this type of stuff.

I still don't understand why you need to begin with wav material...anybody?


That's actually the best tip in this topic... I really liked the first couple of Deep Forest albums (although not the third one). I'll have to check him out!

When Vocaloid was first released, it was hyped as providing the most realistic singing vocals ever. But it didn't, and was pretty much considered a joke. Somehow it managed to take hold in Japan, and the rest is history. I still think it sounds like crap.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/4" audio patchcord
UltraJv
KVRAF
 
5860 posts since 30 Dec, 2004, from London uk

Postby UltraJv; Wed May 14, 2014 6:54 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Im pretty sure it uses many phoneme samples such as AEIOU. One of the problems with any product that tries to simulate speech is that you cant just type words in and get it to sound like the word. You end up messing about trying to make it sound how you want it by substituting letters. It ends up being novelty rather than creative. Cantor from Virsyn was another but it uses pure synthesis. It did quite well :


http://www.virsyn.de/Demo/CANTOR2/Rosenfole.mp3

http://www.virsyn.de/Demo/CANTOR2/BicycleForTwo.mp3


http://www.virsyn.de/en/E_Products/E_CA ... antor.html
Mike Greene
KVRist
 
229 posts since 21 Aug, 2007, from Los Angeles

Postby Mike Greene; Wed May 14, 2014 10:20 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

You buy "singers" to use with Vocaloid. When you buy a singer, it comes with the software (Windows only) to make it work. They've already done the sampling and editing for you, so it's fairly straightforward. They do have a newer editor (Vocaloid3 Editor) that's sold separately, but it's an upgrade, not a necessity. I'm not sure what extra features this editor has.

With Vocaloid, you type in the phonetics and notes onto your computer screen. That's what their "editor" does. It's strictly a playback thing (you don't "play" it live), and I don't think it works in conjunction with your sequencer.

It's also possible to record your own samples and use them in Vocaloid, (CORRECTION: I should have said UTAU, which is a similar, but different platform from Vocaloid) although I'm not sure exactly how. This may be what's made you wonder about sampling your own sounds. It's an option, but most people buy the pre-made sets. There are YouTube videos explaining the process, but they're mostly done by teenage girls who are more interested in hearing themselves talk than actually explaining in a coherent manner.

FWIW, we're releasing a similar product next week called Realivox Blue, which runs in Kontakt. You type in consonants and vowels, then play phrases on your keyboard. It's not really intended for full blown pop lyrics, especially since it's limited to 6 vowel choices, but in my admittedly biased opinion, she sounds pretty believable when you play to her strengths. (Like with any sample library, there are certain things that will sound better than others.)

We'll have proper videos soon showing the word/phrase builder, but in the meantime, here's a video from NAMM:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2014/01/ ... -solo-vox/
Last edited by Mike Greene on Thu May 15, 2014 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Musical Gym
KVRAF
 
3358 posts since 23 May, 2004, from Northern Central CA (not as good as Eureka)

Postby Musical Gym; Wed May 14, 2014 10:32 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Wow, an actual official release date of May 19! outstanding
Mike Greene wrote:FWIW, we're releasing a similar product next week called Realivox Blue, which runs in Kontakt.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
21235 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Thu May 15, 2014 12:40 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Mike Greene wrote:It's also possible to record your own samples and use them in Vocaloid, although I'm not sure exactly how. This may be what's made you wonder about sampling your own sounds. It's an option, but most people buy the pre-made sets. There are YouTube videos explaining the process, but they're mostly done by teenage girls who are more interested in hearing themselves talk than actually explaining in a coherent manner.


Ive never actually seen anything on making soundsets for Yamaha's Vocaloid, just the UTAU software which is a sorta-Vocaloid-clone (and somewhat cruder than the real Vocaloid, I believe). Is that what you're referring to? Cant find anything specific to the Yamaha software and it would be interesting to know, so if youve got links?
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
Mike Greene
KVRist
 
229 posts since 21 Aug, 2007, from Los Angeles

Postby Mike Greene; Thu May 15, 2014 8:05 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

whyterabbyt wrote:Ive never actually seen anything on making soundsets for Yamaha's Vocaloid, just the UTAU software which is a sorta-Vocaloid-clone (and somewhat cruder than the real Vocaloid, I believe). Is that what you're referring to? Cant find anything specific to the Yamaha software and it would be interesting to know, so if youve got links?

Oops! I thought the UTAU software let you then import into Vocaloid. I didn't realize it's its own platform. :oops:
Jaleo
KVRist
 
80 posts since 13 Jan, 2009, from Pontevedra, Spain

Postby Jaleo; Thu May 15, 2014 10:45 am Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Gonga wrote:I'm really interested in Vocaloid, but Yamaha's website is really unclear as to how the process works. Apparently, you need to "import off-vocal wav data." That's clear :ud:


Sure it's unclear according to your words, I think it means that you edit your own melody/lyrics in the score vocaloid editor and then you export the vocal data as wav to import it to an audio track in your DAW.

As expert user, there is no other way to work with Vocaloid.

Vocaloid synthesis engine is fine but the editor is very poor in my opinion, data is very abstract, I mean, you can't see pitch or vibrato represetation, or take a look to phoneme timing (as in Melodyne, etc), just a notation of it in the score, so it's not easy to take it under control.

But you can do so fine things!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iijRGHuNj7U&list=UU7kt_vZ-KdiJs5EFkkUkRTA
Making bits singing at http://thevocaloidmaster.tumblr.com/
deastman
KVRAF
 
3994 posts since 6 Aug, 2003, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby deastman; Thu May 15, 2014 2:23 pm Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Thinking about this some more, I couldn't help wondering...

How is babby formed?
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/4" audio patchcord
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arkmabat
KVRAF
 
2141 posts since 5 Nov, 2009

Postby arkmabat; Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:11 pm Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

Interesting stuff. Seems a bit like Melodyne. I'm deciding on downloading Utau, Cadencii, or AquesTone2...
raintalk
KVRist
 
231 posts since 15 Mar, 2006

Postby raintalk; Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:58 pm Re: How does Vocaloid work exactly?

I equate Vocaloid to how a Rhodes compares to a grand piano. It's different but can be very musical.

Vocaloid 3 editor has Lua scripting for Jobs (scripts)
There's a set of free job scripts at Yamaha that do some interesting things.
These can be copied and modified to do things you might like, like change the default "Ooh" sound to "Do"
Change the pluginID to something unique by taking and existing ID and change a couple of digits

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