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Complete synths

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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realmarco
Waaaaahhh
 
1366 posts since 29 Jul, 2001, from montreal, quebec,canada

Postby realmarco; Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:32 pm Re: Complete synths

fluffy_little_something wrote:By complete synth I mean the synth plus at least a built-in equalizer, compressor, chorus (or reverb), delay, arp and a modulation matrix (or simple slots, doesn't matter), which must at least be able to map velocity to all kinds of parameters including envelope attack stages. To prevent people from suggesting Sylenth, it must also have a PW control, sad enough one still has to say so in 2014 8)



NI's massive has all that
If your plugin is a Synth-edit/synth-maker creation, Say So.
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.

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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
1839 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Fri May 23, 2014 3:38 pm Re: Complete synths

I suggest you to take a look at:
(don't forget to see all the images when there are several, because when it is the case... generally the effects are not in the first image)

All are subtractive synthesis. When they provide another synthesis it is in a minor part behind the subtractive synthesys. And I have extracted for you from my huge list these synths above for their very good quality and absolutely all embed many effects... but I haven't verified if they have a compressor or not (but I know that some of them have it!). I leave it up to you to check them. What is certain is that they all are at minimum 80-90% in your criteria.

And after that... if you take the one that you prefer...

My friendships!
Last edited by BlackWinny on Fri May 23, 2014 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
james0tucson
KVRAF
 
4304 posts since 23 Feb, 2004, from Tucson Arizona USA

Postby james0tucson; Fri May 23, 2014 3:52 pm Re: Complete synths

[quote="fluffy_little_something"][quote="V0RT3X"]If all else fails..

http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/tech/ ... y-262145/1[/quote]

Well, I don't feel like downloading 54 plugins, not only because of my limited Internet access :P[/quote]

You only need #7 on that list, u-he's Zebra2. That's just my opinion but I'm in safe company.
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
1839 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Fri May 23, 2014 4:00 pm Re: Complete synths

james0tucson wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:


Well, I don't feel like downloading 54 plugins, not only because of my limited Internet access :P


You only need #7 on that list, u-he's Zebra2. That's just my opinion but I'm in safe company.

You quote fluffy... but you forget one of the main things he wrote "But it should be the analog synthesis type, not FM, PM or something like that. It should sound good, but I don't need 0df filters and zillion x oversampling."!

In short, he wants something which matches his criteria... but also being simple! Not a monster!

So fluffy, take a look at this list I've made for you with a close respect of your criteria. In this list you'll find a synth which will twice fully match your criteria and be simple without 0df filters and zillion x oversampling. It's been three days that I think of your criteria in a strict manner and put together this little list of synths carefully chosen.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
3553 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri May 23, 2014 4:54 pm Re: Complete synths

Gee, Winnie, please don't waste so much time on me, almost makes me feel bad :)

I will have a look at your list later today :)
I tried Zebra some time ago, was just too much for my humble needs, frankly.
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Uncle E
KVRAF
 
6479 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Fri May 23, 2014 5:12 pm Re: Complete synths

fluffy_little_something wrote:Element unfortunately lacks the compressor.


Aside from that, it's everything you're looking for. Proper use of the envelopes could remove the need for compression.

Price does not really matter.


In that case, get a Virus TI2. :)
Redeem the 11% "FORUM" or 16% "GROUP" coupons at:
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V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
4160 posts since 3 Jul, 2012

Postby V0RT3X; Fri May 23, 2014 5:14 pm Re: Complete synths

If you want a massive collection of stuff, then maybe check out the $99 Reaktor Special that Native instruments has on right now. It might not be your average synth plugin, but it can be so much more. Also you get access to Razor, Monark and a bunch of other super synthesizers.
Having the best tools and technical knowledge isn't gonna do much for you if you don't understand how to make good music.
ENV1
KVRian
 
973 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Postby ENV1; Fri May 23, 2014 5:28 pm Re: Complete synths

fluffy_little_something wrote:Since I just can't seem to standardize on a single DAW, I can at best use synth presets across two or more DAW's since entire racks are specific to the respective DAW. Hence it would be cool to have all effects built right into the synth so that I am totally independent of DAW's. One click in the patch manager and the fully processed instrument is ready to be recorded...

Racks arent DAW specific if you use something like Chainer.

With this (or a similar plugin) you can create whatever Synth/FX chain you want and recall the whole setup via a single preset.

The host and its features wont matter this way.


(You can do this with VSTHost too, but its a little more complicated to handle. Another option would be energyXT, which comes in VSTPlugin format as well. Same goes for FLStudio, but that would be overkill.)
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
1839 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Fri May 23, 2014 5:39 pm Re: Complete synths

fluffy_little_something wrote:Gee, Winnie, please don't waste so much time on me, almost makes me feel bad :)

I will have a look at your list later today :)

Don't worry, t'was not all days long...
Image
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
yessongs
KVRian
 
829 posts since 9 Feb, 2013, from dallas tx

Postby yessongs; Sat May 24, 2014 7:17 am Re: Complete synths

no one synth can do it for me, its sort of like lays potato chips you can't just have one.

free wise you should check out the following prodigious, tube ohm's antitranspirant and m phasewave, charlatan, TAL uno and noizemaker, Uhe tyrell n 6, podolski and zebralette, minimoque luxus, synth 1, voyager, OBXD, oatmeal, firebird, dune be, fullbucket's nabla, monofury and the deputy, M theory and string theory by Ugo, pg8x 1,02a version until he gets the 64 bit out of beta and presets ported, sampletank free, NI komplete players, synthmaster player, AAS swatches, Proteus vx, wusikstation 4000 demo, scanned synth lite version, sonigen modular, soha sonata, poly 2106, must have mag ware Alchemy cm, polykb cm, xils 3 be, aalto be or cm.

also organized trio and mr ray by gsi, cv piano, agml, sonatina symphonic orchestra, abstractor, enzyme demo, mausynth, zynaddsubfx,

I would recommend then you snag blue cat audios patchwork to create your chains in and then that can load in a daw with up to 8 chains of synths and you can use multiple instances of that.

Then as far as commercial synths. Synthmaster, korg legacy collection, wusikstation 4000, see paragraph on cakewalk below, sampletank synths when on sale are nice to snag I have all 5, Native instruments komplete could be all you need, AAS modeling collection is only $300 now for sonar producer owners it is almost up there with komplete in total value, Uhe Diva and Zebra, Gforce minimonsta, arturia v collection, OPX player, VB3, Alchemy, Omnisphere, East West complete composers collection, MOTU mach 5, Halion.

depending on what daw you have and I am partial to sonar it comes with z3ta, dimension pro, rapture, true amber, addictive drums 2, aas lounge lizard lite, aas strum acoustic lite, th2 producer lite version, breverb lite, nomad factories blue tube series of fx, and most importantly melodyne plus upgrades to the full versions of the lite versions are discounted to sonar producer users. Sonar also has more FX and synths but these are the main ones plus the pro channel FX which are on par with anyones modeled FX for compressors eq's and tape / tube sims. When you factor in the must have synths and fx they offer they really have the best bang for your buck deal out there and if you're just starting out there is no way you can get another daw that comes with as much valuable software that you will one day need and want. Be prepared to have $150 extra to upgrade your melodyne to editor when you get producer. If sonar adds to this plethora of software in the future which is highly likely no telling what new goodies they find for us from other software developers. Plus they have a forum that supports newbies very important. all in all when you factor in the software it comes with it is like your getting the daw free because if you bought all the software it comes with you would be spending that money anyway especially on melodyne and possibly others that are included and sonar owners get enough of a discount on those to pay for the cost of the daw free.

always check out the demos on software

These are what I use or want since I included my wish list. for fx discussion there is the fx forum here.
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
3553 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Sat May 24, 2014 9:56 am Re: Complete synths

Uncle E wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Element unfortunately lacks the compressor.


Aside from that, it's everything you're looking for. Proper use of the envelopes could remove the need for compression.

Price does not really matter.


In that case, get a Virus TI2. :)


Indeed, Element is pretty good. I bought it when it came out, for a ridiculous price, but back then I used the Mulab DAW, in which Element would not work because of the Waves platform. So I sold it right away. Now I use another DAW and I wish I had not sold Element. Maybe they will have a sale again some time. I also love the interface, very appealing to an old-skool guy like me :) I suppose if Waves had reasonable prices and free updates without plans and shit, they would sell many more licenses of Element.

Dune 2 is almost too much for me, Zebra etc. even more so. I don't need Unison and crazy modulation, actually I prefer pleasant yet "static" rather than dynamic sounds.


Someone mentioned Monark, I have an AMD computer, not even the latest processor. My computer just can't handle synths like Diva, Monark, etc. I can't make music using just one or two instances :)
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
3553 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Sat May 24, 2014 10:20 am Re: Complete synths

yessongs wrote:no one synth can do it for me, its sort of like lays potato chips you can't just have one.

free wise you should check out the following prodigious, tube ohm's antitranspirant and m phasewave, charlatan, TAL uno and noizemaker, Uhe tyrell n 6, podolski and zebralette, minimoque luxus, synth 1, voyager, OBXD, oatmeal, firebird, dune be, fullbucket's nabla, monofury and the deputy, M theory and string theory by Ugo, pg8x 1,02a version until he gets the 64 bit out of beta and presets ported, sampletank free, NI komplete players, synthmaster player, AAS swatches, Proteus vx, wusikstation 4000 demo, scanned synth lite version, sonigen modular, soha sonata, poly 2106, must have mag ware Alchemy cm, polykb cm, xils 3 be, aalto be or cm.

also organized trio and mr ray by gsi, cv piano, agml, sonatina symphonic orchestra, abstractor, enzyme demo, mausynth, zynaddsubfx,

I would recommend then you snag blue cat audios patchwork to create your chains in and then that can load in a daw with up to 8 chains of synths and you can use multiple instances of that.

Then as far as commercial synths. Synthmaster, korg legacy collection, wusikstation 4000, see paragraph on cakewalk below, sampletank synths when on sale are nice to snag I have all 5, Native instruments komplete could be all you need, AAS modeling collection is only $300 now for sonar producer owners it is almost up there with komplete in total value, Uhe Diva and Zebra, Gforce minimonsta, arturia v collection, OPX player, VB3, Alchemy, Omnisphere, East West complete composers collection, MOTU mach 5, Halion.

depending on what daw you have and I am partial to sonar it comes with z3ta, dimension pro, rapture, true amber, addictive drums 2, aas lounge lizard lite, aas strum acoustic lite, th2 producer lite version, breverb lite, nomad factories blue tube series of fx, and most importantly melodyne plus upgrades to the full versions of the lite versions are discounted to sonar producer users. Sonar also has more FX and synths but these are the main ones plus the pro channel FX which are on par with anyones modeled FX for compressors eq's and tape / tube sims. When you factor in the must have synths and fx they offer they really have the best bang for your buck deal out there and if you're just starting out there is no way you can get another daw that comes with as much valuable software that you will one day need and want. Be prepared to have $150 extra to upgrade your melodyne to editor when you get producer. If sonar adds to this plethora of software in the future which is highly likely no telling what new goodies they find for us from other software developers. Plus they have a forum that supports newbies very important. all in all when you factor in the software it comes with it is like your getting the daw free because if you bought all the software it comes with you would be spending that money anyway especially on melodyne and possibly others that are included and sonar owners get enough of a discount on those to pay for the cost of the daw free.

always check out the demos on software

These are what I use or want since I included my wish list. for fx discussion there is the fx forum here.



I assume you make synth music in a more or less professional way, then I suppose your attitude makes sense. But really, for me one decent general-purpose synth is enough. To give you an idea, currently I use basically only two Superwave synths for everything (Performer and Trance-Pro), which I know inside out by now (except for the FM part, I never knew how to use it constructively). I am not unhappy with the sound, I can get pretty much any sound I need. But they are not complete, the reverb is crap or missing, no compressor, no EQ. My preferred synth is the Trance-Pro, it is at the level I like and need. Unfortunately it doesn't have a 24db filter, the Performer has, but it doesn't sound as good for some reason. So, there is always something else to complain about :) Not to mention that I have to use racks with external effects.

If I knew I would stay with my current DAW, I would keep using those two synths and the racks I have made. But there is a problem which makes me think of switching to another DAW, no idea which one.
(It is another topic, but the problem is that those two synths use up to 7 waves per oscillator. It sounds fine with very slight detuning, but the oscillators need some time to get out of sync in terms of phase. Now, when I record something and want to mix it down, my DAW automatically resets all plugins. So there is no time for the oscillators to get out of sync, i.e. it sounds like crap for 10 or 15 seconds whenever one of those synths sets in for the first time in the song. I have contacted the DAW makers, they don't have a solution, either. I noticed that some other DAW's do the same, others don't, though. I suppose people might encounter a similar issue when using unison, which I never do.)
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Uncle E
KVRAF
 
6479 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Sat May 24, 2014 10:37 pm Re: Complete synths

fluffy_little_something wrote:Now I use another DAW and I wish I had not sold Element. Maybe they will have a sale again some time.


We still have 4 licenses left over from the February 2013 sale. PM me if you want one at that old sale price.
Redeem the 11% "FORUM" or 16% "GROUP" coupons at:
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
 
3553 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Sun May 25, 2014 3:41 am Re: Complete synths

Uncle E wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Now I use another DAW and I wish I had not sold Element. Maybe they will have a sale again some time.


We still have 4 licenses left over from the February 2013 sale. PM me if you want one at that old sale price.


Thanks for the offer, very nice of you :) Unfortunately there is no point in getting Element as the problems persist:
I just managed to download the demo again, took many attempts, they seem to have server issues. Anyway, Element does not seem to work in Mixcraft, either, and in Reaper it causes lots of problems regarding the audio engine. I am afraid the whole Waves platform is not very compatible with lots of software and systems...
But again, thanks for the offer :)
yessongs
KVRian
 
829 posts since 9 Feb, 2013, from dallas tx

Postby yessongs; Sun May 25, 2014 10:56 am Re: Complete synths

fluffy_little_something wrote:
yessongs wrote:no one synth can do it for me, its sort of like lays potato chips you can't just have one.

free wise you should check out the following prodigious, tube ohm's antitranspirant and m phasewave, charlatan, TAL uno and noizemaker, Uhe tyrell n 6, podolski and zebralette, minimoque luxus, synth 1, voyager, OBXD, oatmeal, firebird, dune be, fullbucket's nabla, monofury and the deputy, M theory and string theory by Ugo, pg8x 1,02a version until he gets the 64 bit out of beta and presets ported, sampletank free, NI komplete players, synthmaster player, AAS swatches, Proteus vx, wusikstation 4000 demo, scanned synth lite version, sonigen modular, soha sonata, poly 2106, must have mag ware Alchemy cm, polykb cm, xils 3 be, aalto be or cm.

also organized trio and mr ray by gsi, cv piano, agml, sonatina symphonic orchestra, abstractor, enzyme demo, mausynth, zynaddsubfx,

I would recommend then you snag blue cat audios patchwork to create your chains in and then that can load in a daw with up to 8 chains of synths and you can use multiple instances of that.

Then as far as commercial synths. Synthmaster, korg legacy collection, wusikstation 4000, see paragraph on cakewalk below, sampletank synths when on sale are nice to snag I have all 5, Native instruments komplete could be all you need, AAS modeling collection is only $300 now for sonar producer owners it is almost up there with komplete in total value, Uhe Diva and Zebra, Gforce minimonsta, arturia v collection, OPX player, VB3, Alchemy, Omnisphere, East West complete composers collection, MOTU mach 5, Halion.

depending on what daw you have and I am partial to sonar it comes with z3ta, dimension pro, rapture, true amber, addictive drums 2, aas lounge lizard lite, aas strum acoustic lite, th2 producer lite version, breverb lite, nomad factories blue tube series of fx, and most importantly melodyne plus upgrades to the full versions of the lite versions are discounted to sonar producer users. Sonar also has more FX and synths but these are the main ones plus the pro channel FX which are on par with anyones modeled FX for compressors eq's and tape / tube sims. When you factor in the must have synths and fx they offer they really have the best bang for your buck deal out there and if you're just starting out there is no way you can get another daw that comes with as much valuable software that you will one day need and want. Be prepared to have $150 extra to upgrade your melodyne to editor when you get producer. If sonar adds to this plethora of software in the future which is highly likely no telling what new goodies they find for us from other software developers. Plus they have a forum that supports newbies very important. all in all when you factor in the software it comes with it is like your getting the daw free because if you bought all the software it comes with you would be spending that money anyway especially on melodyne and possibly others that are included and sonar owners get enough of a discount on those to pay for the cost of the daw free.

always check out the demos on software

These are what I use or want since I included my wish list. for fx discussion there is the fx forum here.



I assume you make synth music in a more or less professional way, then I suppose your attitude makes sense. But really, for me one decent general-purpose synth is enough. To give you an idea, currently I use basically only two Superwave synths for everything (Performer and Trance-Pro), which I know inside out by now (except for the FM part, I never knew how to use it constructively). I am not unhappy with the sound, I can get pretty much any sound I need. But they are not complete, the reverb is crap or missing, no compressor, no EQ. My preferred synth is the Trance-Pro, it is at the level I like and need. Unfortunately it doesn't have a 24db filter, the Performer has, but it doesn't sound as good for some reason. So, there is always something else to complain about :) Not to mention that I have to use racks with external effects.

If I knew I would stay with my current DAW, I would keep using those two synths and the racks I have made. But there is a problem which makes me think of switching to another DAW, no idea which one.
(It is another topic, but the problem is that those two synths use up to 7 waves per oscillator. It sounds fine with very slight detuning, but the oscillators need some time to get out of sync in terms of phase. Now, when I record something and want to mix it down, my DAW automatically resets all plugins. So there is no time for the oscillators to get out of sync, i.e. it sounds like crap for 10 or 15 seconds whenever one of those synths sets in for the first time in the song. I have contacted the DAW makers, they don't have a solution, either. I noticed that some other DAW's do the same, others don't, though. I suppose people might encounter a similar issue when using unison, which I never do.)


I use Sonar and as I have learned its features there is one cool thing I can do that might fit your situation depending on how powerful your PC is. I spend time going through sounds in these various synths and when I find one I like and want to use I save it in a template on one of many tracks and if it is the only sound to play I set its midi channel to one of 16. This then repeats and I have 16 midi channels each with one or more sounds saved to a track and active when I switch to that channel. Later on I will experiment with adding separate FX like reverb chorus and delay and others.

Now I am able to turn a knob on my controller and instantly go to any of the 16 midi channels and this empowers me to make on the fly patch changes and even go from playing sampletank orchestral patches which could have 16 sounds inside that mapped to various sections of the keyboard to then playing a lead synth sound on synthmaster to a pad sound on rapture to another lead sound on Z3ta and piano organ choirs and even a sitar if I want to have that in a particular section of a piece.

Now after I settle on the composition and the sounds and record my piece then I know the order sounds will be played in and since I know that I will have to perform this live I can go back in my daw and tweak this project to be a template for live performance. I can now save this project as "songname template for live use". With this template I will go through the song and where ever I have a sound/ preset change or an amp sim/ fx tone change on my amp sims/ fx I will create a marker and set the sounds and tones at that point in the song to be unmuted while all the sounds not in use are loaded and ready to play but muted. Then sonar lets me create a snapshot of this setting at each of these markers so now I can use one pedal and program it so when you step on it you are going from one marker to the next and I do not push play in my daw I only use it as a tool to step through my sounds / tones as I perform the piece live because I am using it as a chainer. This way I have only one pedal to hit when I switch to a new tone on my amp sim or a new sound to play on my keyboard and when that hit happens I move to the next marker and the change is made for me automatically.

This is how I figured out how to accomplish doing the things I need to do that normally someone would purchase a product like patchwork or cantabile or any other chainer.

If you have Sonar you would also get a lot of synths and fx for use as well so I would have you compare it to any other daw and if you have a powerful enough PC consider it as a daw choice. I feel that Sonar provides you more bang for the buck than any other daw. It has a lot more to offer in terms of third party software and the ability to grow into that software with low cost upgrades, Melodyne essential, th2, breverb, nomad factory full version of blue tube series), AAS, addictive drums 2 (full version). I can safely say that melodyne is a must have for any recording artist and that alone makes getting sonar a must but add in the full versions of addictive drums and nomad factories blue tube fx and you are saving so much money on this that it is like you got Sonar free and when you want to upgrade to AAS modeling collection you will only pay $300 which saves you a lot as well. Start out with a lower cost version and eventually upgrade to the full version they have an upgrade path that is fairly inexpensive and as time goes by I full expect to benefit from even more third party software getting integrated with Sonar.
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