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new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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Maomoondog
KVRist
 
298 posts since 16 Mar, 2014

Postby Maomoondog; Fri May 23, 2014 12:56 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

There is still the issue of when loading patches it begins with patch #32 is this something that will change in the future? Also is it possible (or will it be) to load more than one bank of patches ?
This worlds a divided place you know....Were awaiting you!
martin_l
KVRist
 
477 posts since 27 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby martin_l; Fri May 23, 2014 1:05 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

Maomoondog wrote:There is still the issue of when loading patches it begins with patch #32 is this something that will change in the future? Also is it possible (or will it be) to load more than one bank of patches ?


For which patches does that happen? Are you talking about the JX8P*.syx banks?

As I explained on the last page, these banks contain separate sysex dumps for each preset, followed by a "write patch" instruction. The last instruction in these sysex banks is to write the patch number 32, that's why after loading the bank, the actual state of the plugin is that 32 is loaded.

You can simply jump back to any patch you want, by clicking on the patch number in the display box, which will bring up a popup menu to select a preset.

You will see that this menu also has an item 'rotate banks'. This allows you to load more than one bank, because it rotates the 'sub-banks', i.e. presets 1-32 will be moved to 33-64, 33-64 to 65-96 etc. The last sub-bank (97-128) will be moved to 1-32, so you should use this operation before loading the next bank. In this way, you can load 4 of these sysex banks into one full VSTbank. You can then save this full bank either using the host's menu, or by using the 'SAVE' button and choosing a file name with the extension .fxb. Later you can load this bank again using the 'LOAD' button.

A more detailled documentation will follow.

Cheers,
Martin
User avatar
Maomoondog
KVRist
 
298 posts since 16 Mar, 2014

Postby Maomoondog; Fri May 23, 2014 1:21 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

Hi Martin.
Thanks for the reply. Yes the JX8P syx banks. I understand now what you mean by the patch instruction. I will also check out the rotate bank feature too.

The chorus is sounding nice and warm now too, all in all a nice synth.

Thanks again.
This worlds a divided place you know....Were awaiting you!
AdmiralQuality
KVRAF
 
6470 posts since 10 Oct, 2005, from Toronto, Canada

Postby AdmiralQuality; Fri May 23, 2014 7:03 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

martin_l wrote:
AdmiralQuality wrote:
martin_l wrote:NOTE: changed parameters are NOT saved by default unless the patch is written!


You're breaking the VST spec there. Current state of all patch/programs is supposed to be storable/retrievable by the host. If you wanted to have some feature where you could overwrite the default, built-in bank then the Write function could make sense for that.

[Edit: I just tested it and that's not the case. The current settings were correctly restored with the host project and I never went near PG8X's Write button. Good!]


Yes, I phrased that badly. The current state should be saved by the host when saving the project.

The patch architecture of the PG8X is that there is the current patch, and the bank of 128 presets. When changing parameters of the current patch, they are not automatically saved into the preset bank, but they will be saved as the VST state.

In order to save them into the preset bank, one needs to explicitly WRITE them (either to the current slot by right clicking) or by left click on WRITE, then selecting the target preset, and left clicking WRITE again.


A proper documentation of that will follow with the official (non-beta) release.


Cheers,
Martin


I tried that immediately after, writing the patch I made into program position 1, closing the project, then re-loading PG8X into a new project. The written program wasn't in the default bank, it was back to the INIT sound. Did I do something wrong?

Is there an interface for editing the program name yet or do we have to use the host's function for that? I used the host's (Reaper). Though again, it didn't seem to actually save it anywhere when I tried using the Write button.
martin_l
KVRist
 
477 posts since 27 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby martin_l; Fri May 23, 2014 7:28 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

AdmiralQuality wrote:I tried that immediately after, writing the patch I made into program position 1, closing the project, then re-loading PG8X into a new project. The written program wasn't in the default bank, it was back to the INIT sound. Did I do something wrong?


Yes, there is still a problem. I have not quite figured out how the plugin gets to know about a bank which was loaded the last time.

It seems to get the chunk for the current preset. I have to look into that more closely.


AdmiralQuality wrote:Is there an interface for editing the program name yet or do we have to use the host's function for that? I used the host's (Reaper). Though again, it didn't seem to actually save it anywhere when I tried using the Write button.


Click on the preset name in the window.


[Edit] Oops! Just realized that this is broken currently. Will be fixed in the next version.



Cheers,
Martin
User avatar
Maomoondog
KVRist
 
298 posts since 16 Mar, 2014

Postby Maomoondog; Fri May 23, 2014 12:25 pm Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

martin_l wrote:
Maomoondog wrote:There is still the issue of when loading patches it begins with patch #32 is this something that will change in the future? Also is it possible (or will it be) to load more than one bank of patches ?


For which patches does that happen? Are you talking about the JX8P*.syx banks?

As I explained on the last page, these banks contain separate sysex dumps for each preset, followed by a "write patch" instruction. The last instruction in these sysex banks is to write the patch number 32, that's why after loading the bank, the actual state of the plugin is that 32 is loaded.

You can simply jump back to any patch you want, by clicking on the patch number in the display box, which will bring up a popup menu to select a preset.

You will see that this menu also has an item 'rotate banks'. This allows you to load more than one bank, because it rotates the 'sub-banks', i.e. presets 1-32 will be moved to 33-64, 33-64 to 65-96 etc. The last sub-bank (97-128) will be moved to 1-32, so you should use this operation before loading the next bank. In this way, you can load 4 of these sysex banks into one full VSTbank. You can then save this full bank either using the host's menu, or by using the 'SAVE' button and choosing a file name with the extension .fxb. Later you can load this bank again using the 'LOAD' button.

A more detailled documentation will follow.

Cheers,
Martin


I loaded three banks with no problem and saved that as an fxb file, then when I tried to re load it later, it only remembered the first patch of bank 1 - 32 all the others had gone to INIT sounds. :?
This worlds a divided place you know....Were awaiting you!
martin_l
KVRist
 
477 posts since 27 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby martin_l; Fri May 23, 2014 12:39 pm Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

Maomoondog wrote:
I loaded three banks with no problem and saved that as an fxb file, then when I tried to re load it later, it only remembered the first patch of bank 1 - 32 all the others had gone to INIT sounds. :?


Which host is that? I just tried it in Reaper and Savihost, and it worked without problem.
Are you sure you give explicitly the extension .fxb?


Cheers,
Martin
User avatar
Maomoondog
KVRist
 
298 posts since 16 Mar, 2014

Postby Maomoondog; Fri May 23, 2014 12:40 pm Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

martin_l wrote:
Maomoondog wrote:
I loaded three banks with no problem and saved that as an fxb file, then when I tried to re load it later, it only remembered the first patch of bank 1 - 32 all the others had gone to INIT sounds. :?


Which host is that? I just tried it in Reaper and Savihost, and it worked without problem.
Are you sure you give explicitly the extension .fxb?


Cheers,
Martin


FL Studio 11.3 is my host. I named the file fullbanks.fxb

(Edit - My fault I named it fullbanks.fxp) Just retried it and can report it as working fine :tu:
This worlds a divided place you know....Were awaiting you!
martin_l
KVRist
 
477 posts since 27 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby martin_l; Fri May 23, 2014 12:58 pm Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

Maomoondog wrote:
martin_l wrote:
Maomoondog wrote:
I loaded three banks with no problem and saved that as an fxb file, then when I tried to re load it later, it only remembered the first patch of bank 1 - 32 all the others had gone to INIT sounds. :?


Which host is that? I just tried it in Reaper and Savihost, and it worked without problem.
Are you sure you give explicitly the extension .fxb?


Cheers,
Martin


FL Studio 11.3 is my host. I named the file fullbanks.fxb

(Edit - My fault I named it fullbanks.fxp) Just retried it and can report it as working fine :tu:


Indeed, that is the expected behaviour: When .fxp is identified, only the current patch is saved as a single patch fxp file. Glad it's working.

PS. I still have to investigate the render problem in FL...


Martin
martin_l
KVRist
 
477 posts since 27 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby martin_l; Fri May 23, 2014 2:34 pm Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

New versions (23-05) uploaded.

They should fix the broken preset name editing, and the default and randomize functions.

Cheers,
Martin
AdmiralQuality
KVRAF
 
6470 posts since 10 Oct, 2005, from Toronto, Canada

Postby AdmiralQuality; Fri May 23, 2014 3:32 pm Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

Testing in Reaper (x64) on Windows 7...

- Program number and name display empty when plugin is first instantiated

- Host is not noticing changes in program name (to fix this call UpdateDisplay() any time you change a program name).

- Write still isn't doing anything that I can detect. Is it not supposed to write to the default bank? (If so, where are you saving the data? Note that you don't have permission to write under Program Files anymore in new versions of Windows.)

- Program name edit field doesn't show what was there before, always starts from blank

- Program name not recalled with host project.

- Program name not recalled when changing through programs with PG8X's + - buttons. (Is this intentional? Again, if so that's against the VST spec and what hosts and their users will expect.)

- There was something different about the patch I saved (in the host project) and the one recalled. (The cutoff on the recalled program seemed lower.) But I couldn't reproduce it a second time.

- Program change in the plugin (with + - buttons) doesn't cause a corresponding program change in the host. You should be calling setProgram() when you change programs, and let the VST system do the work. Don't try to second guess it or you end up with these functional conflicts and ambiguities.

- Automation appears to be recording correctly, but when played back it's only affecting the GUI, not the sound of the instrument.

This whole Write function thing is rather weird and confusing. This is functionality a VST and AU plug-in isn't meant to provide, and you're ending up with some strange ambiguities about how you're supposed to use this. I'd recommend not trying to duplicate the original instrument down to that level. (Perhaps it would make sense in a stand-alone, but not as a plug-in.) You can still load and save patch and bank files with your own methods and formats. (And the host will always offer to save and recall .fxp and .fxb as well.) But having a separate write system from the host's is confusing and error prone.
Spitfire31
KVRAF
 
1965 posts since 18 May, 2003, from Sweden

Postby Spitfire31; Sat May 24, 2014 1:37 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

AdmiralQuality wrote: "But having a separate write system from the host's is confusing and error prone."

I agree completely. After testing the latest AU version, 23-05, in Tracktion 5.3.6, Mac OS 10.9.2, I find the whole naming/saving/recalling business a bit of a mess.

First, if I try to LOAD any of the JX10BNK[n].SYX banks, nothing happens at all. I haven't followed the thread in detail – perhaps the .SYX banks are meant to be loaded in a different way?

Forgetting sysex, if I edit an INIT patch and rename it to something whimsical, like 'TESTING', perform a WRITE (two clicks on the WRITE button) and then Save the Tracktion file, when I open it again (after quitting the DAW), the patch number in PG8X is the saved one, but the patch name is back to INIT!

Surprisingly, though, the patch settings are the ones saved with the Tracktion file.

However, if I select another patch in PG8X in the drop-down list and then go back to the 'TESTING' patch (now renamed INIT, remember), the settings have reverted to the default ones.

However, again ;-), if after reloading the Tracktion file (remember: I get the Tracktion-saved patch back with the correct number and settings but renamned INIT), I first of all perform a PG8X WRITE operation, then I get the correct settings back even after first having selected another patch, but still with the name INIT, of course.

This isn't very practical, to put it mildly.

Saving an .fxp file now works as expected, though. But how do I save a bank?

/Joachim
If it were easy, anybody could do it!
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DrewDale
KVRist
 
383 posts since 14 Jan, 2014, from The North Of England

Postby DrewDale; Sun May 25, 2014 10:01 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

Functioning and sounding pretty good so far Martin, nice being able to rotate patches too :)

Just a quick question: Is the current GUI the final version ?
Can you dig it ?
electro
KVRAF
 
3353 posts since 5 May, 2002

Postby electro; Sun May 25, 2014 10:59 am Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

DrewDale wrote:Functioning and sounding pretty good so far Martin, nice being able to rotate patches too :)

Just a quick question: Is the current GUI the final version ?


And is the audio engine finalized?
Intel Core2 Quad CPU + 4 GIG RAM
User avatar
DrewDale
KVRist
 
383 posts since 14 Jan, 2014, from The North Of England

Postby DrewDale; Sun May 25, 2014 12:07 pm Re: new VSTi (inspired by the JX8P): pre-release version uploaded

Spitfire31 wrote:
Saving an .fxp file now works as expected, though. But how do I save a bank?

/Joachim


I believe you save a bank in .fxb format, that is how I did it and it loads up OK afterwards. :)
Can you dig it ?
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