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Hardware VS Software!

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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trimph1
KVRAF
 
13740 posts since 23 Jun, 2010, from north of London ON

Postby trimph1; Tue May 27, 2014 8:08 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

methinks jancivil was on to something.....
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Hink
Rad Grandad
 
24713 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.

Postby Hink; Tue May 27, 2014 8:46 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Axiomstatic wrote:Hink me thinks marketing today is allot more in your face then it was in the 70's. Maybe the internet has something to do with that eh.
You are right we did have marketing in the 70's.
At it a while just 28 years :) and having some fun talking about this stuff here. I never put the software plug down, I did ask though how does it compare with folks who use both daily?

As you can see by my posts I am interested in integrating software. Do I like the sound? well I think the Protools stock plugs sound as good as many I have heard in the past few days.

I am not sure any of the emulations I have demoed compare to my real boxes. Again this may have something to do with me being biased old and stubborn.
Still have not found a demo that sounds as juicy as the real 1176 on the snare yet :)


My point about marketing is not how intense it is but the same old thing, comparing and I used the example that I have heard for years sounds just like a Marshall. My point was that I have become pretty immune to such statements much like I am when one daw says their audio engine sounds better than others. I was in retail for some years, my way of selling was to sell benefits over features. Any salesman can list off features, but the salesman who listens to the customer and then explains how the features benefit the customer's needs makes the money. Catch phrases and such will work on some, but someone with experience in anything eventually understands the difference between marketing,what is true and what they need. This is my point, do not go into a demo asking if it delivers what they hype up, ask what it does for you. You may find some very interesting results from some very surprising sources.

IMHO you do not need to apologize for being biased toward hardware, that's your choice and not for anyone here to say. However at the same time trying convince people here to give up their software for the real deal will likely fall on deaf ears and probably get more people questioning your motives. Unfortunately some people do start such topics just to stir up people, many members here want to be able to take pride in our little community and do not care for such threads.

The fact you said to me in this post you are interested in integrating software into your system means I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's true. (if I'm wrong perhaps someone else will read this thread and gain something from it) So once again I suggest you change how you look at a demo and try to see what it can do to benefit you, if the answer is it cant, it cant...end of story. I think a good way to do this is have a silly day n the studio, we all have these right? Days we mess around with things, make funny tunes or sounds just for savage amusement.

Forget the emulations, forget the expensive plugins, go get yourself a few freebie plugins and get silly. Do things you would never do, break your rules. When I was young I had a lot of silly rules and wondered what would thrill me as I aged, well breaking my silly rules is one thing that works and opens up doors with new discoveries and fun.

IMHO you should not be trying to replace your hardware but compliment it with software if integrating software into your work flow is what you really want...just my 2 cents... :)
New Song LBS
Axiomstatic
KVRist
 
50 posts since 15 Apr, 2012, from Australia

Postby Axiomstatic; Tue May 27, 2014 9:24 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Hink Never once I suggested to anyone here give up your software.
In fact the opposite is true. I said if it works for you good on you.
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Uncle E
KVRAF
 
6475 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Tue May 27, 2014 10:04 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Axiomstatic wrote:No way I would trade in my API 1608 for that softube controller.
Never ever in my wildest dreams )


For anyone that wants that hardware tangibility that you spoke of earlier, needs instant access to 48 channels, and wants instant access to a large variety of EQ's and compressors, all in a compact package that costs almost 1/100 of the $50K+ that an API 1608 costs, the Softube Console 1 is a pretty good solution.

Firstly I like the API Sound in particular the 1608. I know how it delivers and to me it sounds like a record!


One of my best friends is the mix engineer for Depeche Mode, Swedish House Mafia, and Pretty Lights, and he's 100% ITB (he mostly uses UAD plugins). Other notable engineers who are mostly ITB are Dave Pensado (Beyonce, Kelly Clarkson, Mary J. Blige) and Bryan Cook (OneRepublic). Even my hero Mark "Spike" Stent is sometimes working ITB these days, simply because budgets aren't there any more for the big studios. So, while I'm not disputing that your 1608 sounds glorious (I bet it does!), there certainly exists evidence that incredible mixes can be done without it.
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Uncle E
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6475 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Tue May 27, 2014 10:12 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

trimph1 wrote:methinks jancivil was on to something.....


Agreed but this topic itself is a bit more fun lately now that there are so many amazing plugins available. I think 2012-2013 was the tipping point, that's when when plugins were released that actually sounded better than most of their hardware counterparts.
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jancivil
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9503 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Tue May 27, 2014 10:50 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Axiomstatic wrote:I will tell you why.
Firstly I like the API Sound in particular the 1608. I know how it delivers and to me it sounds like a record!
Spend a little time on one then move over to something like a DAW controller which is what that Softube is and tell me if you think there is a difference. Who knows you may find you like the API better? or you may prefer the DAW Controller. DAW Controller nah not for me thanks.

Wildest dreams why you do you want to go there?
It could be a conversation. I don't think anyone is trying to disabuse you of what you know you like. You are OTOH saying you would like to integrate software. I don't know why you would exactly, but that setup addresses tactility that the mouse doesn't give you. So, in between a big console and a mouse is a 'DAW Controller'. :shrug:

I think software-only is a discipline, a limitation that forces problem-solving skills and new paths of thought. Furthermore my tracks 'sound like a record'. A lot of people's thing sounds great. So the whole necessity of hardware is really a thing of the past. I understand that if you do it all day, it's not what you want as a hobby, computers. I go to whatever lengths necessary to cut down on mouse clicks myself.

'Gear', it's a means to an end for me, I write everything, arrange everything, provide all of the parts, and mix everything. I'm self-sufficient, I rarely hire anything out. But if you love spending money hardware's what you want. ;)
Last edited by jancivil on Wed May 28, 2014 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hink
Rad Grandad
 
24713 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.

Postby Hink; Wed May 28, 2014 8:30 am Re: Hardware VS Software!

Axiomstatic wrote:Hink Never once I suggested to anyone here give up your software.
In fact the opposite is true. I said if it works for you good on you.


I understand that, but if you notice I'm on your side ;) Have you said "no one should use software"? No, however ime when people constantly shoot down suggestions it indicates that they may not be open to change. Perhaps I should not have even brought that up, but more than one person whom I respect very much has suggested you might be trolling, I was trying to be friendly and help you steer the conversation away from that...forgive me :oops:

I'm not going to sit here and tell you what will sound like the hardware counterpart and what wont, if you ask me that's still pretty subjective even if an A?B comparison can an objective method of trying demos. I very much like the fact that I am not afraid to look at things from different perspectives (I joke that I am the kind of guy who sees a moose head on a wall and wonders what is on the other side of the wall :hihi: ). I wont repeat my suggestion again except to say that all I am saying when you boil it down is try not being concerned with what it doesn't do but what (if anything) it does do.

I totally get it, I went amp sim crazy pre 2010, at the time I lived in an environment even with an iso cab miking up a cab was out of the question (mostly because of picking up outside noise). When I moved in 2010 some of these posters (Eric and Dean in particular because we have long discussions about guitar gear) will tell you I went tube amp crazy since 2010. I'm not sorry I have the sims, I wont update many of them though. Tube amps are my first choice, pretty much because it's always been a part of my playing. Sims will work, no one would know the difference unless I told them. Still tbh similar to how you feel I prefer having real knobs, a real speaker, real mics and the glow of the tubes. Some of that is literally all in my head and not a thing objective about it or even rational in my case...but that matters not, I play guitar for me.

So I get what you are saying, I hope you can understand what I am saying :)
New Song LBS
Axiomstatic
KVRist
 
50 posts since 15 Apr, 2012, from Australia

Postby Axiomstatic; Wed May 28, 2014 11:08 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Yes I totally understand what you are saying however it is interesting how one can be so easily labelled a troll by simply wanting to know more from people about the differences they sight between hardware and software and if any?
This is all the thread was about. Genuinely seeking feedback from those who can make real life comparisons between the two.

Yes I will admit I am very skeptical when it comes to software in particular emulations which claim to sound like the real thing.
I dont think there is anything wrong with me saying those emulations which I have played with in the past week certainly sound nothing like my hardware or the units which they claim to emulate. Is this being a troll?? some may see it that way but I certainly dont.

I thought maybe i would start such a thread to actually hear from those who can speak up honestly on the subject. No I am not interested in hearing about how software sux or any child like gibberish but rather honest to goodness feedback.
I hope you can understand me now :) sure you do.
Have fun with those tubes.
If you want to achieve greatness stop asking for permission!
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ZenPunkHippy
KVRAF
 
10303 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Wed May 28, 2014 11:34 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Accusations of trolling are thrown about - especially for this type of thread (or Analogue vs Digital) - because some people post questions with what is basically a preconceived conclusion (in your case, that the hardware is better), and then proceed to say things like:

So I'm not missing out on anything

It is specifically sentences like this last one that makes the whole thread sound like a wind up, like we were set up from the beginning for a fall i.e. trolled, and that there was never any way to "win" or even advance the argument because the poster knows exactly what the outcome will be.

It's at this point people who invested time in this thread think "why did I even bother?".

The reality is this: you or I or anyone else does not need another person to tell us to use hardware or software. Instead, use your ears. Use whatever achieves the results you need. It's that simple. No need for a thread!

Anyway, and FWIW, in addition to what I said earlier in this thread:

Today's smart engineers / producers / mixers are not saying hardware or software is better. They will embrace the strengths of both when required.

Software: total and complete recall 100% of the time. Good enough sound in many cases. Instances only limited by CPU. There are things you can do in software that you could never dream of in hardware.

Hardware: some things simply sound better in hardware - high end reverbs, certain types of distortion, pre-amps.

Peace,
Andy.
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7460 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Thu May 29, 2014 12:03 am Re: Hardware VS Software!

Software and hardware are, still, and will remain, different. ( And take it from a man who has spent a lot of time on this question, and has provided a bunch of honnest as possible A/B comparisons, opposite to some who just post commercial blurbs, and especially avoid comparisons with the real stuff )

None is better than the other. A ukulele is not better than a strat 56 not better than a moog modular not better than a soft synth not better than a digital compressor when it comes to make music. They are just choices.

To make music, you have tools, or expression mediums, that are instruments, studio devices, be them powder software or real steel things. Each one is FREE to choose the tools he finds the most accurate to reflect his musical projects.

Yes software is in many ways improving ( But some old software still remain good, and some new still remain less good, or less worth of attention). The integration of software and hardware is also in progress ( Maschine, Push, Spark ), and this is another layer of possibilities offered with 'ready made' integrated tools ( While most of they offer is probably already available for those who know how to integrate different tools and make them work together )

I would not even recommend to anyone to get the both of both worlds ( Wich I personnaly do). I'm totally ok with people working totally ITB, or totally old school, like Lenny Kravitz.

Freedom is the keyword.... M.U.S.I.C :shrug:
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Axiomstatic
KVRist
 
50 posts since 15 Apr, 2012, from Australia

Postby Axiomstatic; Thu May 29, 2014 2:44 am Re: Hardware VS Software!

Yes many good points made just now.

Yeah I like to keep old Skool like Lenny. Notice the k in skool just trying to be cool. :)
All the best.
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Uncle E
KVRAF
 
6475 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Thu May 29, 2014 10:05 am Re: Hardware VS Software!

Lotuzia wrote:Software and hardware are, still, and will remain, different.


Actually, "different" is certainly one of the qualities of hardware. By that, I mean that someone could easily make their studio stand out just by modding or DIY'ing their gear. I've done a lot of that and it's pretty easy to get good results when you start with a good base. With software, there are platforms available to allow non-programmers to roll their own but it doesn't seem so easy to get good results.

btw, I got amazing results by modding my Universal Audio Apollo 16. I could imagine KVR'ers getting into modding their interfaces.
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Axiomstatic
KVRist
 
50 posts since 15 Apr, 2012, from Australia

Postby Axiomstatic; Thu May 29, 2014 4:59 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Yes I modded my H3000. :) Fantastic results,
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Hink
Rad Grandad
 
24713 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.

Postby Hink; Thu May 29, 2014 5:20 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Axiomstatic wrote:Yes I totally understand what you are saying however it is interesting how one can be so easily labelled a troll by simply wanting to know more from people about the differences they sight between hardware and software and if any?


you're preaching to the choir but I think ZenPunkHippy explained it well (even if he cant spell hippie :hihi: ), it's the internet :shrug:

Have fun with those tubes.


:scared: umm...okay :hihi:
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Dean Aka Nekro
KVRAF
 
6116 posts since 4 Oct, 2007, from Escaped At Last

Postby Dean Aka Nekro; Thu May 29, 2014 11:25 pm Re: Hardware VS Software!

Axiomstatic wrote:Yes I totally understand what you are saying however it is interesting how one can be so easily labelled a troll by simply wanting to know more from people about the differences they sight between hardware and software and if any?
This is all the thread was about. Genuinely seeking feedback from those who can make real life comparisons between the two.

Yes I will admit I am very skeptical when it comes to software in particular emulations which claim to sound like the real thing.
I dont think there is anything wrong with me saying those emulations which I have played with in the past week certainly sound nothing like my hardware or the units which they claim to emulate. Is this being a troll?? some may see it that way but I certainly dont.

I thought maybe i would start such a thread to actually hear from those who can speak up honestly on the subject. No I am not interested in hearing about how software sux or any child like gibberish but rather honest to goodness feedback.
I hope you can understand me now :) sure you do.
Have fun with those tubes.


It is a topic that I have elaborated upon along with a lot of friends and people and also sometimes alongside many fellow friends and people here. That is why I called it 'serenading a dead horse', It has been a reoccurring topic that many have done and are just not interested in regurgitating the same stuff they have typed out before. I don't mean any offence with that but simply the way it is (as far as I am aware and I can genuinely only speak for myself here obviously, Even though I'm rather sure the majority are on the same page)

Don't go for emulations, Go for stuff that is not based on anything available processing and effects wise in any form outside the box (Even though I dare say you'll probably get to many familiar points of reference. Now whether they sound good to you/work for your wants & needs or just leave you cold is an absolutely personal matter which you can only settle at on your own)

I came from using only hardware but as I got more turned onto the possibilities of what working ITB could do and do extremely well I just went with what worked for me and that is the same story for many of us here. Also working less, ALOT LESS due to full-time, single parenting in really well equipped studios to nowadays working only now and again for money from home it was really a good job I did to be honest!

Until the children are older I mostly just do my own thing like many here simply because we have to have that outlet (Of course the nicer the setup, The much more likely one will be equipped to get from the most base idea to full track and have a lot of fun in the process. However for so many members that is 100% ITB with perhaps a quality MIDI controller, monitors and headphones being all they need to achieve the goal and that is what works for them and they have as much fun as a is possible. For others it might be, Like my setup pretty much a split down the middle between ITB and hardware or any shade of grey inbetween those two).

So I find it not only difficult to know where to start elaborating/sharing my setup/what works for me and why, When somebody with nearly the same toolset is using it vastly differently creating vastly different results in a style/genre I'm not well versed enough in to comment on but always have my ears open/stay open minded since the last thing I feel like doing is listening to my own crap when I've spent a lot of focus on getting it done, I want away from it to clear my head, You know? I suspect other people are the same in that respect (In my very humble honest opinion, It'd take a bit of a nutter of a character to sit and listen to their own work all the time quite honestly...I'm sure that sort of character does exist though!)

I get lots of amusement out of 'audiophiles' and the stuff they ramble on about and the stuff they sell; It is brilliant fun to keep up with those lot whom don't even consider that their hi-fi system has/does cost them more than most very respectable spaces turned into studios and kitted out with some great gear, That is fascinating and my guiltiest pleasure is to delve into the way those sucker's are marketed too and take a gander at what they are really blowing fortunes upon. We have it so very easy in comparison I believe ;)

All the best and whatever floats your boat

Dean
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