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9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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4damind
KVRAF
 
3594 posts since 17 Aug, 2004, from Berlin, Germany

Postby 4damind; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:17 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

Hink wrote:
4damind wrote:A interesting article I've found with very good and helpful points to be more successful as an artist.

http://skinnyartist.com/9-warning-signs-of-an-amateur-artist/


may I ask what your definition of a successful artist is?


Regularly releases with a good quality level - and this doesn't mean a song every year! IMO a good idea is to finish enough tracks so you could release a album every year. This includes some additional tracks which will be sorted out because they don't fit the style, are not good enough etc. You know that most of this successful artists having a lot more songs but only releasing a small part of this. If you play live or you are hired for other things this if course different because you will not have enough studio time. But many of them composing also in the hotel room, the air plane etc.
A growing fanbase, air plays (radio stations, played by other people like DJs, public events etc).
You can also be successful with producing for other artists or for film/movie so I would not include "live gigs".
IMO there is a difference between a successful artist and a commercial successful artist. You can have success but will not have (many) sales or no interest to sell your music.

The interesting thing is that some of this points I heard also from other "professional" producers. They don't wait for inspiration or if the mood is right. They having studio time and time for administrative things. They do a lot of things to market and sell their work etc.
"Amateur Artists never finish their work" it's the same like " Finish what you start. Always." (this statement is from another guy of the "six golden producer rules")

I'm not sure with "Amateur artists are often so busy reading books and attending workshops that they rarely have any time to create art." I don't think that a lot of people are so busy with workshops and stuff. Maybe it's more true that a lot of people are often so busy because of visiting internet forums :D

Anyway there are some good ideas.
Last edited by 4damind on Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Frank Arnold Musician & IT Freelancer

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Hink
Rad Grandad
 
24859 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.

Postby Hink; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:28 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

4damind wrote:
Hink wrote:
4damind wrote:A interesting article I've found with very good and helpful points to be more successful as an artist.

http://skinnyartist.com/9-warning-signs-of-an-amateur-artist/


may I ask what your definition of a successful artist is?


Regularly releases with a good quality level - and this doesn't mean a song every year! IMO a good idea is to finish enough tracks so you could release a album every year. This includes some additional tracks which will be sorted out because they don't fit the style, are not good enough etc. You know that most of this successful artists having a lot more songs but only releasing a small part of this. If you play live or you are hired for other things this if course different because you will not have enough studio time. But many of them composing also in the hotel room, the air plane etc.
A growing fanbase, air plays (radio stations, played buy other people like DJs, public events etc).
You can also be successful with producing for other artists or for film/movie so I would not include "live gigs".
IMO there is a difference between a successful artist and a commercial successful artist. You can have success but will not have (many) sales or no interest to sell your music.



okay so your definition is pretty much commercial and popular success, which is what the article is about too...so you are using the words 'professional' and 'amateur' in the intended manner imho. In this case the article probably has a lot you can relate to (and a younger version of myself for that matter could relate). Given my definition of success is quite different than yours and is based on personal growth I'll simply say (with no sarcasm intended) I wish you the best of luck :)
New Song LBS
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9627 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:47 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

there are things of sense there and there is crap.

"A professional knows that the first hour or two of work is simply a warm-up exercise until their fickle muse finds them worthy of her attention." Yeah, well I can sit down and improvise something fantastic sometimes, just nail it having not played for weeks. I believe in first takes, that's f**king professional. That statement might be true of some things at some times, such as I will set up a sound world for days and days before hitting one note, but I do not bloody know that I need an hour or two, before 'the muse' comes. I've prepared myself for first takes for years and years. My takeaway from this remark, I'm done reading now, is this guy is lame.

This 'muse', 'inspiration'? At the same time he's saying do this work and talk about a muse, that's self-contradictory at some level.
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Tricky-Loops
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8443 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:47 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

If I overlook the (over-)dramatic title and the terrible term "amateur artist", there are some interesting tips...
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Hink
Rad Grandad
 
24859 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.

Postby Hink; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:48 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

cyphersuit wrote:Very good article, thanks for posting!


why I feel this is not a good article is one glaring issue...from the title on it's suggests that professional is better than amateur when in fact the truth is the difference is technically one gets paid and the other doesn't. Why would one want warning signs? That sounds like people should avoid amateurs or avoid being amateurs, I dont think that is a good message myself.

FWIW it's not just the author, it's become the norm these days and why I actually try to avoid such words. Sadly many people believe being a professional is better than being an amateur :shrug:
New Song LBS
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9627 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:52 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

t3toooo wrote:This article is very very good.


A professional artist does not simply sit down for an hour and write half a chapter or paint a few strokes on the canvas and call it a day because their favorite television show is starting in ten minutes.
How does he know? Which professional artist, all of them got the memo from this little blog? Some people knock out whole works in that amount of time, everyone functions in their own time by their own lights.
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9627 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:56 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

Hink wrote:
cyphersuit wrote:Very good article, thanks for posting!


why I feel this is not a good article is one glaring issue...from the title on it's suggests that professional is better than amateur when in fact the truth is the difference is technically one gets paid and the other doesn't. Why would one want warning signs? That sounds like people should avoid amateurs or avoid being amateurs, I dont think that is a good message myself.
Actually he has used the word professional to indicate a serious attitude. I have no problem with that, but there is a meaningful definition of 'amateur' I would wager he doesn't even know (fr. French amateur "lover of", from Old French and ultimately from Latin amatorem nom. amator, "lover"), you do it for the love of it. Once upon a time, all teams in the Olympics had to retain amateur status, that designation sure doesn't per se mean you aren't into it much.
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4damind
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3594 posts since 17 Aug, 2004, from Berlin, Germany

Postby 4damind; Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:59 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

Hink wrote:okay so your definition is pretty much commercial and popular success, which is what the article is about too...so you are using the words 'professional' and 'amateur' in the intended manner imho. In this case the article probably has a lot you can relate to (and a younger version of myself for that matter could relate). Given my definition of success is quite different than yours and is based on personal growth I'll simply say (with no sarcasm intended) I wish you the best of luck :)


Yes, in my definition there is a difference between "commercial" and "popular" success. I don't like so much this amateur vs professional thingy because it goes a bit to the wrong direction because it implies often that a amateur is not a "real" musician (has not the same knowledge to play an instrument etc).
If you have no interest for commercial success, you must not invest a lot of time to sell your stuff so "they also have to know how to market and sell their work as well" is only partly true for some people.
Frank Arnold Musician & IT Freelancer

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Hink
Rad Grandad
 
24859 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.

Postby Hink; Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:01 pm Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

duly noted x2 :)
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V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
4368 posts since 3 Jul, 2012

Postby V0RT3X; Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:38 pm Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

Amateur here too
Best Advice I ever got : "Having the best tools and technical knowledge isn't gonna do much for you if you don't understand how to make good music."
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Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8443 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:04 pm Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

It's absolutely shocking to see people confessing that they're.......................................................................amateur... :tantrum: :eek: :shock: :-o
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chaosWyrM
KVRist
 
482 posts since 28 Apr, 2010, from NYC

Postby chaosWyrM; Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:30 pm Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

the very foundation of the article is flawed.

"I’m not talking about if you have a corporate sponsorship or whether or not you are earning the big bucks"

the one and ONLY requirement of being a "professional" anything...is that you get paid for it, i.e....it is your profession. the rest is incidental.

things you do NOT need to be a professional artist:

talent
skill
creativity
drive
commitment
knowledge of art

sure...those things will help you (maybe), and you probably wouldnt even be in a position to to be a professional artist without at least a couple of them, but not a single one is a requirement. there are plenty of professional artists who have none of those things. especially in the entertainment industry.
nasenmann
KVRian
 
582 posts since 24 Oct, 2005

Postby nasenmann; Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:20 pm Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

Nice to see that people have a more faceted view on this, OP included.

It's not that it's complete horseshit - some bits in there i can totally agree with.
But i don't like the overall tone and think the article is sending out some problematic signals, and that indeed begins with the usage of the word "amateur".

I stand by my initial judgement, but no disrespect to anyone finding something worthwhile in there.
GeckoYamori
KVRist
 
314 posts since 22 Feb, 2004

Postby GeckoYamori; Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:55 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

Ooh, these kinds of articles.

You absolutely won't believe how fast these 9 weird tricks turned me from an amateur artist into a professional overnight. Music teachers HATE HIM!
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Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8443 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:58 am Re: 9 Warning Signs of an Amateur Artist

GeckoYamori wrote:Ooh, these kinds of articles.

You absolutely won't believe how fast these 9 weird tricks turned me from an amateur artist into a professional overnight. Music teachers HATE HIM!
AMATEUR music teachers? :P
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