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Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:13 pm Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

http://ausdisciples.com.au/media/audio/ ... n-2014.mp3

Download all tracks from this album here

UPDATE 19th June, 2014 - Brand new mix just uploaded with some of Annode's suggestions implemented. Thanks Annode!

I kept the file name the same and the links are the same so everything above will still work. If you have previously downloaded the original version and want to compare it, make sure you rename the old version before downloading the new one.

Just a small thumbs up here... If this is too much to read, just grab the tune and have a listen. I tend to write on autopilot sometimes and get a tad carried away!!! I won't be offended if you don't read everything. It's simply there for those who want to know a little more about the tune and how it was written and recorded.

This track is the newest track (as of 17th June, 2014) from my new album, “Hidden Gems | Instrumental Journeys,” and is a complete rework of a tune I originally wrote nearly 1/4 of a century ago as part of a long since disbanded duo I was a member of.
This one makes use exclusively of my trusty old Yamaha SY77 synthesizer, one which many consider to be a HUGELY underrated synth capable of emulating many of the analog classics of the 70s and early 80s. Of course, it is eminently capable of delivering the palette of other Yamaha classics such as the DX7 and creating textures and sounds unique to its hybrid mix of AFM, AWM and analog style filtering. They're not that expensive second hand too and I recommend grabbing one if you come across one. Even better, see if you can find an SY99.

Anyway, enough raving about the synth and on to the tune.

As mentioned, I originally wrote this track almost 1/4 of a century ago using the SY77 on board 16 track sequencer and the data for the track was saved on 3 1/2“ floppy disks in Yamaha SY77 sequencer format. As we all know, those floppies were not known for their robustness so it was a gamble as to whether the data would still be intact all these years later. Indeed, it was enough of a challenge finding the track amidst all the floppies I have and then finding the original sound banks I created for the track.
As it turns out, I found the original sound bank first. In went the floppy and, much to my delight, the SY77 read it and loaded its contents without a problem. However, for some unknown reason, I DIDN’T save the sequencer data on the same disk!
So the next challenge was to find the sequencer data which was probably on one of the MANY unlabelled ones I have! The first of these disks I tried would not load. The SY77 came up with a corrupt disk error. Hopefully that wasn’t a sign of what was to come with the other disks. Hmmm......
On went the search through my other disks and along the way, I found the original disks I got with this synth which contained six sound bank collections and their associated demo tracks. Anyone who has owned an SY77 and had these disks will remember those six collections as the Manhattan, Platinum, Alchemy, California, Benelux and PJ collections. If anyone has an SY77 and wants a copy of the sound banks, I'm happy to share them.
As I did when I first got this synth, I saved some of my newest tracks to those demo disks (without erasing the sound collections of course!) so I searched through them for Ghost Train but to no avail. Another hmmmm.....
Then, I found a disk which was not even labelled as an SY77 disk. It was labelled ‘ideas, games.’ I have no idea what it originally contained (when I wrote that label on it) but what it DID contain was the sequencer data for Ghost Train and again, the SY77 read it and loaded it without issue! Whew!

At this point, I loaded up SY Manager on my laptop and saved all the SY77 sound bank data from that floppy disk to my HDD. I also recorded the MIDI data along with the audio for each track of Ghost Train to the REAPER project for this song. I’m actually planning to do that with all the songs and sounds I have on floppies while they still work.

OK, with all that sorted, let’s move on to the music.....

The concept behind this track is the idea of an otherworldly train entering the picture and taking the listener on a journey beyond our physical world and into the realm of eternity.
The track opens with a somewhat ominous mix of bubbling lava and enveloping textures enhanced with the use of Valhalla Shimmer reverb.

At around 30 seconds, a chord progression gives a clue as to what is to come and the sounds of what I envisioned to be electrical disturbances from the imminent entry of a ghostly train from an eternal dimension begin.

At 49 seconds, the sound of the train racing along its tracks breaks into the soundscape and leads us to a change of perspective.....

At 1:05, our perspective switches from that of an observer to that of someone immediately transported on board the glowing, multi-dimensional, speeding train.
The patch for the haunting Moog style lead at this point was created two days ago specifically for the remake of this track and the solo is a brand new addition. Again, I make use of the pitch wheel and the two modulation wheels on the SY77 for this patch. The first mod wheel controls the typical LFO modulation of the oscillators and the second wheel controls the cutoff frequency of the filters. For this patch, I performed the solo with the synth in patch edit mode and used the data entry slider to control the resonance of the filters as I played the solo.

There is also another monophonic, portamento style solo which begins at 2:08 and continues for a few bars (to 2:40) on its own before counterpointing the main solo for the majority of the rest of the tune. The mono solo was actually the original and only keyboard solo for this tune. My partner in the duo mentioned earlier originally played a guitar solo on this track using his Roland GR1 guitar synth but, while I really like what he played, I had always envisaged something different for this track and the new solo is much closer to my original vision.

At 2:40, we change keys and the new solo re-enters, joining the original solo. As with my previous tune, O Jerusalem, I made use of the stereo stage and kept the original solo in the middle and spread the new solo wide. I also used sidechained compression on the original solo, sidechained to the new solo so they would share the space without getting in the way of each other. The sounds are also quite different in their frequency content which helps them sit together without ending up an unitelligable mess.

At 4:12, the train takes us to our first stop to pick up more passengers and the music gains a fairly traditional ‘middle eight’ which may, or may not be eight bars long!!

At 4:28, we head off down the tracks again for the final part of the journey and the tune picks up some ‘weight’ with a sequenced octave bass part and a change of emphasis via some active 'playing’ of the filters on the new solo. Have a listen for the rich resonating top end on the filter at around 4:49. THAT is one of the reasons I have no plans of selling my SY77!! It has filters more typical of a 70s analog monster than that of a 90s digital synth.... and yes, they can self oscillate. As I mentioned, if you like what you hear, go grab an SY for yourself from eBay.

At 7:08, the train once again disappears into eternity...... with the passengers still on board!
The echoing of the train on the tracks here is created with Variety of Sound, NastyDLA MKII which is BY FAR my favourite delay plugin. I just LOVE the accuracy of its vintage delay emulation and that chorus, the modulation and the filters are SUPERB! Grab it if you haven’t already. It is FREE!!

The rest of the track is a palette of sounds to leave us contemplating the destination of that train. The lush reverbs here are once again courtesy of Valhalla Shimmer. The main reverb on the rest of the track is Valhalla Room and the delays are a mix of Nasty DLA MKII and ReaDelay (REAPER’s stock delay).

Stereo widening of some sounds, multiband dynamics, harmonic enhancement and mix buss EQ is all via iZotope Ozone 5 Advanced and everything was recorded from the SY77 into my new RME Fireface UFX. I actually recorded the tracks one by one into REAPER even though I could've recorded four tracks at a time via the SY77's four outputs. The reason I did this was to avoid any channel crosstalk between tracks. The SY77 actually has a bug which prevents sounds from being fully panned left. The maximum left pan value is 31 rather than 32 and results in a very slight leak into the right channel of anything panned hard left. Panning hard right does not present the same problem.

Information about previous tracks from this album can be found at:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=413329
and
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=412534

Let me know what you all reckon.
Last edited by AusDisciple on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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annode
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4904 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:36 pm Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

Lotta stuff. You must be a novelist the way you write. ;) Good background though.

I liked the composition a lot. It sits mostly in the back so I had to listen a few time before it became perfectly clear to me. My mind wants to hear it as the credits roll at the end of an action sci-fi movie.

Could work with a vocal as well I think...mi, mi, mi...ehem..no I don`t sing really, thank you anyway.
Would love to have the trks and have a go with it myself. I hear it fading out at one point about 3/4 the way through. Thinks it`s way too busy with all the soloing going on. My mix and arrangement would be very different.
I like the percussive sounds, especially the filter sweep and the snare smack..good stuff, really moves it along.

I don`t feel it`s up to par with the other tunes on a 'finished' level. The mix is not as clean and open sounding and the instrumentation seems cluttered.

I do like it though, but I think you can improve it as well.
"It`s difficult to work in a group when you`re omnipotent." Q
My SoundCloud
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:08 am Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

Thanks again Annode for taking the time to be the first to listen and comment on this track. :tu:

annode wrote:Lotta stuff. You must be a novelist the way you write. ;) Good background though.

lol :D I was always getting good marks in my high school days for creative writing. I got bored with many of the other aspects of my English classes though and actually managed E's for some of those things, not because I was no good at them but because I simply wasn't interested!! At least my teacher knew that I knew 'English' starts with an E!! :hihi:
annode wrote:I liked the composition a lot. It sits mostly in the back so I had to listen a few time before it became perfectly clear to me. My mind wants to hear it as the credits roll at the end of an action sci-fi movie.

Funny you mention that. Film scoring is something I've actually always been very keen on. Given the right film, I'd love to write a big score for the big screen. Unfortunately though, Hollywood is producing some utter garbage these days and I'm not interested in the vast majority of it. Not that I'd be likely to get a look in anyway. They don't know me from a bar of soap!
annode wrote:Could work with a vocal as well I think...mi, mi, mi...ehem..no I don`t sing really, thank you anyway.

lol :hihi:
annode wrote:Would love to have the trks and have a go with it myself. I hear it fading out at one point about 3/4 the way through. Thinks it`s way too busy with all the soloing going on. My mix and arrangement would be very different.

That's what makes musical expression so great. We can all see things from different perspectives and we are not all robotic imitations of one another. :)
Perhaps I am biased by my original vision for this track (no doubt I am) but the busy vibe is actually quite intentional and is meant to represent the emotions of the passengers on board a crowded, supernatural, speeding train heading one way to an unknown destiny! :o
annode wrote:I like the percussive sounds, especially the filter sweep and the snare smack..good stuff, really moves it along.

That is actually only one sound spread across the keyboard. The difference between the kick, snare and 'hats' is actually only the difference between the played octaves. I created that patch specifically for this track.
annode wrote:I don`t feel it`s up to par with the other tunes on a 'finished' level. The mix is not as clean and open sounding and the instrumentation seems cluttered.

I do like it though, but I think you can improve it as well.

Hmm... I hear you but, to be honest, I'm still deciding whether or not this is actually my favourite track so far for this album. I listen to it and get excited by the vision in my head being so close to what I hear but then I listen to the others and I can't decide which is my favourite!!!

The attitutde I always have towards my own music is that if I don't enjoy listening to it, I won't release it. I guess this one comes down to personal preferences and that is quite OK by me.
Once again though, I truly appreciate your comments and feedback. I have many more ideas for the next few tracks for this album and, at the rate I am going with inspiration so far, this could easily end up a double album. In the scope of that, there's bound to be tracks some like more than others and that is a good thing. I'd hate for everyone to be clones of each other!!! How boring would that be?!! :tu:

Most importantly, I am attempting to compell my listeners to actually be ACTIVE listeners and get involved in the experience of listening to music again. In this day and age of rush, rush, rush, it seems the joys of picking a favourite comfy chair in front of one's trusty HiFi system and absorbing the experience of a musical journey are getting lost and it is up to us as artists to release music to create a shift back to that. Hopefully, my little contributions go some way towards helping others discover or re-discover those precious experiences. That is the world I grew up in as a teenager. My bedroom HiFi was my own personal oasis from the frequent (but thankfully not constant) cruelties of the world!!
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:17 am Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

Annode, one very important thing I want to mention is that your feedback on my mixes WILL influence the other tracks I write for this album. As I mentioned, I do value feedback and I will be implementing some of your suggestions as I go, particularly your feedback regarding openness and spaciousness. I actually really value those two qualities in my productions.

I have an idea that may formulate the core of my next track and that is based around a test recording I did a couple of weeks ago when I first received my new RME Fireface UFX. I just happened to have one of my LDC's set up on a mic stand and had it plugged into one of the RME preamp's and my cat was sitting right near the mic purring loudly and contentedly. I carefully moved the mic close to him so as not to disturb him and I got the cleanest recording of a cat purr I've ever heard!!! Straight away, I started getting ideas for a tune based around his purring!!!!
I might have a play around and feed his purrs into some of my analog synths and sequencers and see what I can patch up! Fun stuff!!! :tu:
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annode
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4904 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:01 am Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

EDIT - did not yet see the post above this one when I wrote this. It show me that maybe making suggestions is not always a lost effort. AusDisciples has shown to be one of the exceptions. :)

annode wrote:
I don`t feel it`s up to par with the other tunes on a 'finished' level. The mix is not as clean and open sounding and the instrumentation seems cluttered.

I do like it though, but I think you can improve it as well.


AusDisciples replied;
Hmm... I hear you but, to be honest, I'm still deciding whether or not this is actually my favourite track so far for this album. I listen to it and get excited by the vision in my head being so close to what I hear but then I listen to the others and I can't decide which is my favourite!!!


Makes me think...to be honest, either myself and others, who make suggestions about other ppls music, are mostly off base, or ppl who post music aren`t really interested in the suggestions of other listeners, but only just want to get heard and talk about what they`ve made.

I`ve always noticed how often listeners keep from making personal or even production suggestions towards the music. Maybe they realize how nobody really cares to consider it...so they just say "What you`ve done here is just fabulous !" I just think how superficially back slapping and some times just full on 'mutual admiration society ass kissing for points' that is. But maybe I should realize that`s about all ppl really desire when it comes down to it, and suggestions are a waste of writing and thought effort.
"It`s difficult to work in a group when you`re omnipotent." Q
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:24 am Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

I certainly here you Annode and I do indeed make these posts with the hope that others will post honest feedback. I'm not at all closed to your suggestions for Ghost Train either and perhaps I made it seem that way with my second last reply.
Obviously, I am very close to this project and my own observations are not unbiased by any means.

Serious question, what is your main concern regarding the clutter? Is it primarily the lead solos getting in the way of each other or is there more to it? I am open to refining this mix. It is relatively simple to update the download with a new mp3 file of the same name but a newer mix.
If two lead solos are an issue, which is your preferred one? The original or the new one? To be honest, I might be too attached to the original one for nostalgic reasons and I want to include the new one because I really like that patch. Perhaps I just need to pick the best bits of both and ditch the rest.

I'm also hoping others will chime in here too. I value feedback and apologize if I sounded too closed earlier. That was not my intention.
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:47 pm Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

Quick update - Brand new mix just uploaded with some of Annode's suggestions implemented. Thanks Annode! :tu:

I kept the file name the same and the links are the same so everything in my first post will still work. If you have previously downloaded the original version and want to compare it, make sure you rename the old version before downloading the new one.
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:56 pm Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

Forgot to mention, the new mix has some of the original solos removed to make space for the new (and better IMHO) one. I also fine tuned some elements of the mix to create a more open feel. There's no longer any reverb on the percussion, the keyboard pad sounds have been EQ'd for more presence, the bass parts have also been EQ'd for more definition and the whole mix has undergone a specific surround treatment so it should work well on Dolby ProLogic II systems (use movie mode rather than music mode on Yamaha amps).

There are quite a few other smaller tweaks that I won't mention that when combined, give the whole track more space and better separation between the instruments.
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annode
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4904 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:04 pm Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

I wish other ppl would chime in. What, do we have B.O. ? :lol:

The solos are tremendous. You play your ass off with a lot of feeling. Not boring or repetitive. Keeps me there.
Again, i`m listening over the Bose speakers...so before I give an assessment I better listen on the Mackies. I will say this though, I needed to cut on the player`s graphic eq by -7.4db @ 8000khz. That is a lot for a single band, and even in this environment / equipment error that`s a lot.

Anyway, once eq`d in here it sounds great! In here l also lifted the 32.25hz range +5.76 to bring the low end up to the rest of the spectrum. The other adjustments were minor and what I might expect considering it`s on this equipment.
Let you know how it goes with the Mackies.
PS; Both versions are like this in here.

EDIT: The lack of low end without pushing it up I think is because your bass range is harmonically synthesized into a range below 50 or 60hz...maybe that`s where these Bose drop off? There is no upper harmonic content? I`ll have to look at the spectrum when i`m able.

In the mean time i`m studying for an interview tomorrow so I can`t do it tonight. :(

I don`t know why your not getting comments...
"It`s difficult to work in a group when you`re omnipotent." Q
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:52 am Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

annode wrote:I wish other ppl would chime in. What, do we have B.O. ? :lol:

lol :hihi:
I was starting to wonder something similar. Hopefully people don't think I peed in their Cornflakes!! :o
annode wrote:The solos are tremendous. You play your ass off with a lot of feeling. Not boring or repetitive. Keeps me there.

They're probably not to everybody's taste but I enjoy playing them and I'm glad you enjoy listening to them. The aim is something along the lines of bebop or freeform jazz but in a different genre.
annode wrote:Again, i`m listening over the Bose speakers...so before I give an assessment I better listen on the Mackies. I will say this though, I needed to cut on the player`s graphic eq by -7.4db @ 8000khz. That is a lot for a single band, and even in this environment / equipment error that`s a lot.

Anyway, once eq`d in here it sounds great! In here l also lifted the 32.25hz range +5.76 to bring the low end up to the rest of the spectrum. The other adjustments were minor and what I might expect considering it`s on this equipment.
Let you know how it goes with the Mackies.

I'm definitely keen to read your thoughts after listening on the Mackies. If anything, I was actually debating whether or not their was enough energy in the 6-10KHz range. I just did a test with both the RME Digicheck tool (I guess you have that with your RME card?) and TrueRTA. I used Digicheck to grab an overall peak response of the track and TrueRTA for an average response curve. Both of these actually show a slight dip in the 6-8K range which is what I was hearing here.
For the TrueRTA average, I didn't play the beginning and end of the track. I wanted to average only the main body of the track to avoid skewing the results with the sparseness of the beginning and end.
Here's the results:

TrueRTA Average (1/12th Octave smoothing, 1/24th Octave capture)
Image

RME Digicheck Peak
Image
annode wrote:PS; Both versions are like this in here.

EDIT: The lack of low end without pushing it up I think is because your bass range is harmonically synthesized into a range below 50 or 60hz...maybe that`s where these Bose drop off? There is no upper harmonic content? I`ll have to look at the spectrum when i`m able.

There wasn't originally a lot of upper harmonics in the bass spectrum of the first half of the tune so I added some harmonic excitement using iZotope harmonic exciter set to dual triode mode and that really fattened things up. The bass part in the second half is a separate synth part playing octaves and all that needed was some EQ boost in the 200Hz - 1KHz range. There was actually already plenty of information there but it needed to be brought forward with EQ.
annode wrote:In the mean time i`m studying for an interview tomorrow so I can`t do it tonight. :(

Let us know how the interview goes. :tu:
annode wrote:I don`t know why your not getting comments...

Me either. Perhaps some will read this and fill us in. ;)
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annode
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4904 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:52 am Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

Thanks for going to the trouble to make and post those graphs. :)
I may be wrong, but i`m not sure if digicheck runs on my old RME driver. I did dload it some yrs ago, and have it still, but don`t remember if any of it runs on my discontinued driver. :( I believe it was written after my driver expired.

There is audibly something up with some of the 'blaring' solo levels as I hear it on the Bose and the Mackies. I don`t usually hear what i`m hearing with other pro-mastered music on the Bose...that`s all I can say about that. I`ll just ignore it then and just assume it`s at my end. The graphs certainly don`t appear to represent what i`m hearing...there is an answer, I just don`t have the tech savvy to understand it.

As far as the low end, the graphs do show a significant dip somewhere above 50 or 60hz. (hard to read) I also see this dip with a Soundforge spectrum of the whole track and the 1st half of the trk. This seems to represent what I was guessing concerning rolloff. Nowhere do I hear anything sounding 'fattened'.
I added some harmonic excitement using iZotope harmonic exciter set to dual triode mode and that really fattened things up

The 2nd half, although adequate in level, is also on the weak side a few db for me.

I`m no mastering engineer so I don`t have answers explaining why we`re hearing these thing differently. I like asking questions and looking for answers.
If I come to find something tangible, i`ll surely share it. :)

I tried working with the mp3 in Soundforge, although raising the kick/bass level in the 'above 60hz range', 1st half, just makes more mud, respectively. There`s other content in that range as well and that adds even more to the messiness. So what i`m saying is i`m at a loss for figuring this out considering what I have to work with.

- Would be nice if some other audiophile types would chime in on this. :help:

Oh, and yes, the interview seemed to go well, but you really can`t tell for sure...:lol: I expect a call next week :pray:
"It`s difficult to work in a group when you`re omnipotent." Q
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:10 pm Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

I'll reply in more detail later Annode but just wanted to let you know I agree with you about the hole around 100Hz. I've done some tweaks to the multiband compression on the new lead part too and hopefully that'll help tame the 8K thing you're hearing. When I solo that part, it is a little peaky in that range but perhaps because I'm mixing this through the RME converters (which I've only had for a few weeks) and they are so much smoother in the top end than what I was using, that 8KHz peakiness isn't jumping out like it would've. Not that the problem isn't there but more that it doesn't sound obvious because EVERYTHING sounds smoother on the RME, even problem frequencies!!
I guess I will have to adjust to this and become more picky in that range. I love the RME converters because they are so much smoother but I need to be pickier now too which is a good thing because I'll be being picky in things actually in my mixes rather than compensating for converters.

I'm actually working on a completely new mix right now and have done a LOT of work to the 80-200Hz range in the percussion and bass parts. It turns out there was actually a lot of room to really bring out the definition in the 'snare' hits too and they now sound more like a train crossing over sleeper lines in the tracks.

I hope to have the new mix up soon and will post here when done.
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annode
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4904 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:42 pm Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

Great! Glad to hear you found means for improvement in sound.
Yes, i`ll agree that it`s certainly the extended performance of the Fireface.
It`s like the difference between 16 and 24bit dynamics. With 24 your peaks can get loud quickly without anything hitting the wall because of extended headroom. And that Firefox, although your recording @ 16bit, along with hardware synths, can get pretty dynamic.

Yeah, the hole spanning across the 100hz can really make a difference realizing that many average home speakers roll off @ 60hz...so much of the bass content sitting below that falls away...and the content above 60hz needs to have considerable RMS power compared to higher content. The Mackies carried the below 6ohz content, but with little definition considering the lack of above 50hz definition. (Mackies go down to a usable 35hz)

When I cut the peaky solo with the hardware monitor mixer eq, it was only a 3db cut to level it off. Considering 6db is twice or half the loudness from 0db, 3db, although a small number is considerable.

Cool. The snare I remember was also part of that upper bass range content I was trying to raise...and yes, it did sound better to me when it got raised. :)

Keep up the good work mate!
"It`s difficult to work in a group when you`re omnipotent." Q
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Frantz
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2637 posts since 18 Jul, 2008, from New York

Postby Frantz; Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:38 pm Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

:o Wow. Mucho texto. Typo verboso.

As for the music, I like the sounds and the style. It sounds great but perhaps it's too jam packed with ideas. (Sorta like this thread. :wink:) I would enjoy it more if there were more space instead of wall to wall synths. But that's a minor complaint, keep up the good work.
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AusDisciple
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210 posts since 6 Oct, 2013, from South Australia

Postby AusDisciple; Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:39 am Re: Ghost Train - My HARDWARE One Synth Personal Challenge - New Track from 'Hidden Gems' Album

annode wrote:Great! Glad to hear you found means for improvement in sound.
Yes, i`ll agree that it`s certainly the extended performance of the Fireface.
It`s like the difference between 16 and 24bit dynamics. With 24 your peaks can get loud quickly without anything hitting the wall because of extended headroom. And that Firefox, although your recording @ 16bit, along with hardware synths, can get pretty dynamic.

I actually record everything at 24 bit depth even if the digital synths are 16 bit. I prefer to do that because I can record at lower levels and allow for dynamic expression without the concern for digital clipping. I'm recording those synths from the analog outs anyway so any tweaking of the volume controls can yeild dynamic range outside the synth's 16 bit D/A. Realistically though, it's going to be a pretty huge volume adjustment that takes up the full 24 bits resolution of the A/D!!!
Recording at 24 bit depth with lower levels also keeps the mix buss at a reasonable level when it comes time to mix. I dither down to 16 bit on the mix buss through Ozone 5 Adv.
annode wrote:Yeah, the hole spanning across the 100hz can really make a difference realizing that many average home speakers roll off @ 60hz...so much of the bass content sitting below that falls away...and the content above 60hz needs to have considerable RMS power compared to higher content. The Mackies carried the below 6ohz content, but with little definition considering the lack of above 50hz definition. (Mackies go down to a usable 35hz)

That's all fixed in the new mix. Grab a copy and have a listen. Make sure to rename the old one again though because I kept the file name on the server the same in order not to break links.
annode wrote:When I cut the peaky solo with the hardware monitor mixer eq, it was only a 3db cut to level it off. Considering 6db is twice or half the loudness from 0db, 3db, although a small number is considerable.

What I ended up doing on that solo was adding a narrow band de-esser centered around 8KHz to pull the peaks off but keep the character at lower levels. I also tweaked the multiband compression to add more body and round off the tops a bit. It sits better in the mix that way too.
annode wrote:Cool. The snare I remember was also part of that upper bass range content I was trying to raise...and yes, it did sound better to me when it got raised. :)

Keep up the good work mate!

Cheers Annode and thanks for all your tips. Much appreciated.
BTW - Make sure you check this mix out in ProLogic II mode. I added some specific surround encoding to some of the parts and there's stereo surrounds when PLII is used. Listen to the train at the end of the intro. It pans from surround left to front left to front right to surround right. The surround encoding actually worked better than I expected and there's quite a bit of channel separation on some of the sounds. Lots of fun!
Frantz wrote::o Wow. Mucho texto. Typo verboso.

Ha! Yeah, I was joking with Annode about that earlier on. I tend to get carried away with writing sometimes!!
Frantz wrote:As for the music, I like the sounds and the style. It sounds great but perhaps it's too jam packed with ideas. (Sorta like this thread. :wink:) I would enjoy it more if there were more space instead of wall to wall synths. But that's a minor complaint, keep up the good work.

Cheers for the feedbank Frantz. This is definitely one of my busier tracks. The new mix is more open though. If you are keen, download the track again and have a listen to the new mix. As mentioned to Annode though, if you want to keep the old one for comparison, rename it before downloading the new one because I kept the same filename for the new upload.
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