What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
KVRist
 
188 posts since 3 Dec, 2007, from Cambridge, UK
 

Postby Woody Aki; Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:00 am Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

It's been ages since I started a post...but, here goes.

After previewing (on Youtube) two recently released Kontakt libraries by a third-party dev featuring a modern analogue synth in each (both of which I desire), it was really exasperating to find out that the libraries seem to not have the ability to tweak the sounds within. On top of that, the libraries are £30 each!

To me, this is a travesty - I tend to buy libraries by other devs that are cheaper, sampled with much more detail than the aforementioned libraries, and are ridiculously tweakable - on top of a decent GUI. But then I thought...could it be that the dev was imposed a set of conditions by the creators of these modern synths upon asking permission?

I'd like to hear third-party Kontakt library devs expand on this matter, and post their thoughts. To me, the latest version of Kontakt is so versatile that, other than libraries that require little or no tweaking (e.g.. pianos), there is simply no excuse to just bung in well-recorded samples, map them, and leave it at that. But maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture, which is where the devs' input might shed some light on this irritating matter.
User avatar
KVRian
 
745 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Postby mysticvibes; Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:06 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

er, kontakt has a dozen filters, many lfo's and many many high quality fx you can apply even if there aren't any knobs at all with the given gui of a library? So how exactly is any sound not tweakable in kontakt?
Image
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9502 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:11 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Of course you can still tweak things "inside the wrench". The dev probably couldn't afford scripting for his libraries?
User avatar
KVRAF
 
19192 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net
 

Postby aMUSEd; Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:24 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Yes all Kontakt patches are tweakable (in the full version) - there are dozens of filters, effects, modulations etc

What I find more annoying is when banks with dozens or hundreds of patches and nice tweakable guis are not set up for automation - yes you can add it manually (if there are just a few) but that is not realistic when there are many patches to do it for and when the dev should have added it as part of the gui in the first place.
User avatar
KVRist
 
188 posts since 3 Dec, 2007, from Cambridge, UK
 

Postby Woody Aki; Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:59 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Let's just say that, when I buy a library, I treat it as a synth, i.e. I don't know or care about what goes on inside...it's what I have in front of me that counts. As much as you're primed to bash my self-limited and simplistic approach, this approach is the one that works for me...drivers and mechanics, for want of a term.
KVRAF
 
3171 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Postby kmonkey; Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:30 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Woody Aki wrote:Let's just say that, when I buy a library, I treat it as a synth, i.e. I don't know or care about what goes on inside...it's what I have in front of me that counts. As much as you're primed to bash my self-limited and simplistic approach, this approach is the one that works for me...drivers and mechanics, for want of a term.

AFAIK every decent successful driver does know (not only to steer and press gas) it's own engine inside out.

Surely there is dozen of drivers which know how to drive, but only a few can be named as "real drivers" :wink:
User avatar
KVRian
 
745 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Postby mysticvibes; Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:53 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Agreed, surely if you like tweaking and making sounds unique from presets then shouldn't you be happy with as much options for tweaking as possible, plus with just one click it all becomes in front of you. familiarize with the tweak options of kontakt itself, in case you aren't already, then maybe it will become what works for you. I personally really like the formant filters for tweaking vocal sounds and choirs etc..
Image
User avatar
KVRAF
 
3402 posts since 1 Aug, 2005, from where butter flies
 

Postby Zombie Queen; Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:16 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

aMUSEd wrote:What I find more annoying is when banks with dozens or hundreds of patches and nice tweakable guis are not set up for automation


Could you elaborate? What you mean not set up for automation? Can't you drop automation on any automatable parameter? And if parameter is not automatable, it's not so easy to do it manually... assuming script is unlocked.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9502 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:32 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

You can drop it on a parameter by parameter basis, but you cannot do that across a batch of NKIs that have identical control layout/functionality. There's ways to do this with KSP, but alas, it's not as simple and it has its own pitfalls.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
19192 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net
 

Postby aMUSEd; Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:37 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Zombie Queen wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:What I find more annoying is when banks with dozens or hundreds of patches and nice tweakable guis are not set up for automation


Could you elaborate? What you mean not set up for automation? Can't you drop automation on any automatable parameter? And if parameter is not automatable, it's not so easy to do it manually... assuming script is unlocked.


Yes you can if you just have a few patches and not lots of params - but even setting up one gui fully to be automated, even a relatively simple one, takes time, and the problem is that setup is not then applied to all patches so as soon as you switch patches you lose all that work - if you have lots of patches it soon becomes unrealistic.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
3402 posts since 1 Aug, 2005, from where butter flies
 

Postby Zombie Queen; Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:08 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Ah, thanks, I get it. I think I never really used that kind of libraries.
What are practical solutions? Having all patches already saved with cc or host parameters assigned?
I can imagine, one could do cc automation handling within script, even edit and save it as default for all patches. But is there control for host automation from script? Haven't seen anything related in the manual.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
9502 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:21 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

It's not documented because as I said, the command has its pitfalls and behaviours that aren't yet fixed, but some NI libraries use it (Scarbee, Vintage Organs, Retro Machines, for example). Checking those scripts could give you an idea.
KVRist
 
47 posts since 18 Jun, 2013

Postby Shask; Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:23 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Maybe I am weird, but I tend to not like the Kontakt libraries that are all scripted out to look like some synth VST. To me it seems like you lose the spirit of what a sampler is. Messing with the groups, zones, etc... is where the fun in using a sampler over a synth is.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
19192 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net
 

Postby aMUSEd; Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:25 am Re: Kontakt libraries without any tweakable parameters...what's the point?

Well if I open up a bank like say Retro Machines every gui control has an automation ID setup for it, presumably by NI or the sound designer. I very much doubt they did that after they made all those patches as that would be a waste of time, so I'm guessing there is some way to make it part of the process of building the gui script. On the other hand if I open up Sonic Couture's Geosonics, which has hundreds of patches with a more complex GUI, not one has automation ID's. They should not be leaving things like that to the end user. It should be seen as much as part of development of a gui script as the knobs and buttons, there is no point in even having a GUI like that if you can't easily automate it.
Next

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Samplers, Sampling & Sample Libraries

cron