What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

DJDJ
KVRer
 
5 posts since 7 Jan, 2009

Postby DJDJ; Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:44 pm Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

I definitely get the difference between them.

But, I've found that in practice, most of the ways they end up getting used sound virtually the same. It's pretty rare to go that crazy on the modulation with a modeling synth, because it can sound like too much really easily. I honestly don't know that many people, besides a few professional sound designers, who use the morph function on sculpture.

But hey, don't let me talk you out of it. Everybody has different things that inspire them. I was just offering up a little counterpoint to the all consuming GAS that people go through. And in my personal opinion, they're not all that different. Certainly not different enough to warrant switching to OSX or something like that.
User avatar
KTlin
KVRist
 
183 posts since 20 Jul, 2009

Postby KTlin; Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:33 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

Thanks DJDJ for your input.
Indeed, I'm trying hard to curb my GAS and not switch to MAC. :) Hehe
And I'm quite sure you can get pretty close to Sculpture's sounds by using a couple of other synths and tools (for ex. combining Prism, Modelonia, Chromaphone, Steampipe and Tassman), but unfortunately, for what I try to achieve, that path would be very tedious. Exactly like aMUSEd said:
aMUSEd wrote:They are all very good but I see the problem, in Reaktor the possibilities are huge but in terms of individual ensembles you would have to use several to get close to what Sculpture does in one synth and have nothing like its morphing capabilities. I managed to get something like this by combining Steampipe and Modelonia with Kore to create morphing versions but now I have Sculpture I can see how much I was missing. There is nothing really like it.
User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
19644 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:08 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

DJDJ wrote:I definitely get the difference between them.

But, I've found that in practice, most of the ways they end up getting used sound virtually the same. It's pretty rare to go that crazy on the modulation with a modeling synth, because it can sound like too much really easily. I honestly don't know that many people, besides a few professional sound designers, who use the morph function on sculpture.



I use it all the time - for me the main point of physical modelling is not absolute perfect replication of 'real' instruments but the ability to explore the sonic spaces in between say a flute and a guitar.

I also love Chromaphone for the quality of its sound but hate it for its lack of expression - it's most exasperating that I can't apply pitchbend, aftertouch or even glide/portmanteau to play sounds more naturally and expressively when if any synth needed these things it is this one - it's like they have made this wonderful instrument but then taken away one of my hands.
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2362 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:43 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

aMUSEd wrote:I use it all the time - for me the main point of physical modelling is not absolute perfect replication of 'real' instruments but the ability to explore the sonic spaces in between say a flute and a guitar.

I also love Chromaphone for the quality of its sound but hate it for its lack of expression - it's most exasperating that I can't apply pitchbend, aftertouch or even glide/portmanteau to play sounds more naturally and expressively when if any synth needed these things it is this one - it's like they have made this wonderful instrument but then taken away one of my hands.

I wholeheartedly agree. If AAS would finally implement some real modulation matrix that supports all important controllers it would make their instruments top notch. There's only so much you can do with multiple instances in instrument layers or XY-devices for blending different timbres.
From the outside I find these decisions very hard to understand, especially when String Studio 2 comes out after all those years with zero enhancements in that area.

:shrug:

Cheers,

Tom
User avatar
mysticvibes
KVRian
 
988 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Postby mysticvibes; Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:58 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

:D
Last edited by mysticvibes on Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
mysticvibes
KVRian
 
988 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Postby mysticvibes; Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:58 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

:dog:
Last edited by mysticvibes on Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
mysticvibes
KVRian
 
988 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Postby mysticvibes; Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:58 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

Video sounds really good, shame its logic only
Image
BDeep
KVRAF
 
1697 posts since 13 Feb, 2012, from Amsterdam

Postby BDeep; Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:04 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

aMUSEd wrote:I also love Chromaphone for the quality of its sound but hate it for its lack of expression - it's most exasperating that I can't apply pitchbend, aftertouch or even glide/portmanteau to play sounds more naturally and expressively when if any synth needed these things it is this one - it's like they have made this wonderful instrument but then taken away one of my hands.
The weird bit about that is that Ableton's Collision does these things (apart from glide I believe). Although Collision doesn't do the coupling the way Chormaphone does.
User avatar
loungepanda
KVRist
 
80 posts since 27 Apr, 2013

Postby loungepanda; Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:31 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

I also wish there was an equivalent for PC.

In general it's quite annoying how few modelling synths there are for both platforms.
User avatar
33tetragammon
KVRist
 
166 posts since 22 Aug, 2010, from Netherlands

Postby 33tetragammon; Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:43 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

I'm surprised that nobody here even mentioned U-He's Zebra. Its comb filter alone is fantastic, not to mention the rest!

Feed the comb filter a pluck or a noise going through a distortion and assign stuff to Zebra's mighty MSEG's .....

And morphing....Can you say X/Y pads?....

Google some of Howard Scarr's tutorials on Youtube.....
User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
4046 posts since 3 Jul, 2012

Postby V0RT3X; Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:59 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

33tetragammon wrote:I'm surprised that nobody here even mentioned U-He's Zebra. Its comb filter alone is fantastic, not to mention the rest!

Feed the comb filter a pluck or a noise going through a distortion and assign stuff to Zebra's mighty MSEG's .....

And morphing....Can you say X/Y pads?....

Google some of Howard Scarr's tutorials on Youtube.....


Zebra is amazing for stuff like that. Actually If you pick up Dark Zebra with it you get an awesome resonator filter which does incredible sounds, but you probably all heard that if you watched the batman movies.
xoxos
Mr Entertainment
 
10592 posts since 29 Apr, 2002, from i might peeramid

Postby xoxos; Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:16 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

never used or seen sculpture so i don't know what you're missing but i do expect it can't be found. i also have a collection of PM instruments (xoxos.net) you may or may not find amusing (at least i can guarantee features not found elsewhere) but just about all the PM s/w is markedly primitive (eg. perry cook level) in comparison to the "julius o. smith/academic" level it would be nice to see people expressing themselves with.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha xoxos.net free vst. neither a follower nor a leader be
tagore "where roads are made i lose my way"
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
8665 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:24 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

DJDJ wrote:I definitely get the difference between them.

But, I've found that in practice, most of the ways they end up getting used sound virtually the same. It's pretty rare to go that crazy on the modulation with a modeling synth, because it can sound like too much really easily. I honestly don't know that many people, besides a few professional sound designers, who use the morph function on sculpture.

But hey, don't let me talk you out of it. Everybody has different things that inspire them. I was just offering up a little counterpoint to the all consuming GAS that people go through. And in my personal opinion, they're not all that different. Certainly not different enough to warrant switching to OSX or something like that.


Just a simple thing like adding some randomization... so each pluck is slightly different. Trivial in Sculpture. Cannot do in the AAS synths.

And of course, String Studio and Chromaphone both do some lovely soundscape stuff where you would want to morph sounds over time.

But even for a basic string sound, the morphing in Sculpture is useful because all sorts of subtle morphing decay changes over the life of the plucked sound can be had.

I like the basic sound and modeling of String Studio and Chromaphone as much or more than Sculpture. String Studio is more enjoyably unexpected and Sculpture is more predictable. Sculpture is excellent, but for me, not spectacular enough that I would switch to Logic or change platforms.

(Since 33t brought it up) Zebra is my all around favorite. It is far more diverse than any of those. Here are a just couple of my string type sounds from Zebra. Especially on the first one, hear how many subtle differences there are from note to note.

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Pluckde2.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/Stringzz2.mp3

With Zebra I can add string resonances, buzz, variations etc that are not possible with SS or Sculpture. It takes more learning because it is not specifically a modeled string synth. But the toolset is vast and effective and I find it a pleasure to use.
Winstontaneous
KVRian
 
522 posts since 14 Feb, 2006, from Berkeley, CA

Postby Winstontaneous; Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:23 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

xoxos wrote: just about all the PM s/w is markedly primitive (eg. perry cook level) in comparison to the "julius o. smith/academic" level it would be nice to see people expressing themselves with.

Ha, that's an interesting way of putting it. Would you say this due to computational demands of higher-level PM or a lack of imagination on the part of developers? Do you have suggestions for those wishing to do more interesting implementations (short of having a Julius O. Smith-level understanding of the math involved :lol:)?

I haven't gotten too far into Sculpture but I agree that the interface makes it easy to radically change the character of the sound intuitively.

I second Evil Dragon's recommendation of the Chet Singer Reaktor ensembles. I've only checked out his Ampere Modular ensemble, but I feel that the instruments in it (guitar, organ, sax, clarinet) are incredibly musical. I think this comes from giving each ensemble a specific focus with a reasonable range of parameters...you might not get a crazy steel drum sound from the sax model, but with simple changes in articulation you can go from well-mannered to chaotic within a phrase, just like John Coltrane or Rahsaan Roland Kirk.

Madrona Labs' Kaivo seems different from most of the others in terms of its 2D modulators, granulator, and FDTD. It seems more focused on novel methods of excitation than typical PM, which feels like a fresh approach.

pdxindy wrote:(Since 33t brought it up) Zebra is my all around favorite. It is far more diverse than any of those. Here are a just couple of my string type sounds from Zebra. Especially on the first one, hear how many subtle differences there are from note to note.

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Pluckde2.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/Stringzz2.mp3

With Zebra I can add string resonances, buzz, variations etc that are not possible with SS or Sculpture. It takes more learning because it is not specifically a modeled string synth. But the toolset is vast and effective and I find it a pleasure to use.


Sounds great, thanks for sharing. It reminds me that many threads on KVR fixate more on "What synth should I get to make this sound" than "how can I make the synth I have sound the way I want."
User avatar
KTlin
KVRist
 
183 posts since 20 Jul, 2009

Postby KTlin; Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:44 am Re: Still nothing like Logic's Sculpture for PC?

aMUSEd wrote:.... for me the main point of physical modelling is not absolute perfect replication of 'real' instruments but the ability to explore the sonic spaces in between say a flute and a guitar.

My thoughts exactly. I'm into physical modelling synthesis for the exact same reason. :tu:
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Instruments