KVR Audio

Thomas_Pynchon · Post by **Thomas_Pynchon** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:09 pm

I would like to get a Mac laptop to use as a DAW, but all of my software is for PC, I know its possible to run PC software using bootcamp etc, but how well does this work if running sample libraries from an external HD and using cubase, protools, etc?

Thanks

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:19 pm

With WINE you can use Windows software on a Mac OS...

http://www.winehq.org

But if you want to use a Mac DAW with VST plugins, that's difficult. I'd rather look for the AU versions then...

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:27 pm

Thomas_Pynchon wrote:I would like to get a Mac laptop to use as a DAW, but all of my software is for PC, I know its possible to run PC software using bootcamp etc, but how well does this work if running sample libraries from an external HD and using cubase, protools, etc?

Thanks

Are you asking how well bootcamp works? AFAIK, just like any other laptop. Bootcamp is not emulation, it is multi-boot.

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:36 pm

I installed Windows 8.1 on my wife's MacBook Air using Parallels so that she can run her PC-only software (not music production) and it works seamlessly. The best part is that you can run it in "compatibility" mode, which means that you're operating in the OSX environment, but it opens and runs your PC software on Windows in the background. You can switch on-the-fly into the Windows environment as well. It's pretty cool, actually, and we've had no problems with it. But, I haven't tried it with music production software - I keep my own MacBook Air OSX-only (with Logic and Studio One) because I like to have a leaner setup.

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:56 am

Thomas, I just want to make mention - Macs are known to be fairly safe from malicious attack (don't fall for the belief they are completely safe!); however, Windows machines are prone to attack.

If you run Windows on a Mac you are subject to the above rule.

Do not forget to add virus protection to the Windows environment, in case you didn't realize it or overlooked this aspect of running Windows on a Mac.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

Thomas_Pynchon · Post by **Thomas_Pynchon** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:31 am

Tricky-Loops wrote:With WINE you can use Windows software on a Mac OS...

http://www.winehq.org

But if you want to use a Mac DAW with VST plugins, that's difficult. I'd rather look for the AU versions then...

Yes all the pc sample libraries i have would be loaded as vst's into cubase using kontakt. I don't have any experience using audio units so that is new to me. I'm hoping to be able to have the best of both worlds using a mac that can also do everything my pc can, but if it just means problem after problem then I might as well get a PC.

Thomas_Pynchon · Post by **Thomas_Pynchon** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:32 am

dsan@mail.com wrote:Thomas, I just want to make mention - Macs are known to be fairly safe from malicious attack (don't fall for the belief they are completely safe!); however, Windows machines are prone to attack.

If you run Windows on a Mac you are subject to the above rule.

Do not forget to add virus protection to the Windows environment, in case you didn't realize it or overlooked this aspect of running Windows on a Mac.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

good to know, thanks for mentioning that.

Thomas_Pynchon · Post by **Thomas_Pynchon** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:33 am

cryophonik wrote:I installed Windows 8.1 on my wife's MacBook Air using Parallels so that she can run her PC-only software (not music production) and it works seamlessly. The best part is that you can run it in "compatibility" mode, which means that you're operating in the OSX environment, but it opens and runs your PC software on Windows in the background. You can switch on-the-fly into the Windows environment as well. It's pretty cool, actually, and we've had no problems with it. But, I haven't tried it with music production software - I keep my own MacBook Air OSX-only (with Logic and Studio One) because I like to have a leaner setup.

Sounds perfect, now it would be nice to hear from some seasoned users who may be using a similar setup as a DAW. Thanks.

Thomas_Pynchon · Post by **Thomas_Pynchon** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 am

I found a related post on the SOS forum which I will repost here from this thread:
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... in=1060736

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a tough deal to get better performance in that virtual space.

In simple terms, with Bootcamp the mac BECOMES a widows machine, Windows communicates directly with the Apple hardware.

Your set up has Windows talking to Parallels, who passes the message on to OSX.
By the time the message arrives it's old news.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Except that bootcamp isn't virtualization, it's just Windows running on Intel hardware with an Apple UEFI BIOS instead of OSX running on that hardware, i.e., a dual-boot setup with Windows being installed in a separate partition from OSX. But it's only Windows, without OSX at all, i.e., either OSX or Windows, but not both at same time on same system.

Parallels Desktop (or VMware Fusion, etc.) is a virtualization platform (hypervisor) running under OSX which enables running Windows in a virtual machine (VM) alongside OSX at the same time on the same system, with shared desktop (so-called "coherence" feature). PD8 running in OSX can boot a Windows VM from a bootcamp partition in which that Windows is installed

Btw, Windows has offered similar virtualization capabilities for some time now also (basic, but for free) enabling running other (earlier) versions of Windows in a VM alongside, e.g. XP mode.

A limitation of most virtualization platforms has long been been that host system hardware needs to be further abstracted (emulated) in order to be made available to guest OSes running in VMs, unless it can be directly assigned (passed-through) to the guest OS while being hidden from the host OS. USB passthrough in PD8 is virtual (emulated) and thus slow. And PD8 doesn't even offer emulated Firewire at all, while the basic Windows virtualization platform doesn't even offer USB emulation (only in server hypervisor version).

Some enterprise class virtualization platforms do offer direct passthrough capabilities for certain system hardware, as necessary support for this has become available in recent Intel and AMD processors and chipsets. But even so, different applications running under host/guest OSes or in separate VMs can't easily communicate or share data between themselves (which typically requires networking them), which makes it difficult to use separate DAWs under separate OSes in a virtualization scenario.

The best solution for the OP would probably be running the Windows-only pluig-ins on a Windows PC alongside the Mac as was guessed at. Vienna Ensemble Pro could be useful for that although not absolutely necessary if audio and MIDI can be otherwise passed between PC and Mac.

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:19 am

Thomas_Pynchon wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:With WINE you can use Windows software on a Mac OS...

http://www.winehq.org

But if you want to use a Mac DAW with VST plugins, that's difficult. I'd rather look for the AU versions then...
Yes all the pc sample libraries i have would be loaded as vst's into cubase using kontakt. I don't have any experience using audio units so that is new to me. I'm hoping to be able to have the best of both worlds using a mac that can also do everything my pc can, but if it just means problem after problem then I might as well get a PC.

Yeah, honestly? I don't think you'll get the best of both worlds this way. Sure, if you use Bootcamp, it will be just like using Windows but on Mac hardware, so that would work. For all audio related stuff, I wouldn't use virtualisation tools such as Parallels and Wine. For Mac you'll need Mac VST's or AU's, which work the same way as their Windows counterparts (on the surface anyway). What you'll need to do if you want to use OS X is to go through all of your current plugins and see if they have a Mac version (Kontakt of course has).
But, if you insist on using windows plugins and so forth, really, get a Windows machine. Or get a Mac and use Bootcamp, but I don't see any benefit there as it would just be like using a Windows pc. All other options (IMHO of course) are just a big hassle.

Thomas_Pynchon · Post by **Thomas_Pynchon** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:15 pm

Thanks, unfortunately I have hundreds of sample libraries, so finding Mac versions isn't going to work.

Any recommendations on where to pick up a pc laptop to use as a DAW? I know of ADK pro audio...

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:04 pm

Well, if these are Kontakt sample libraries, they sure are going to work.... Kontakt for Mac uses the same files as Kontakt for Windows. Samples and sample libraries are not as much of a concern (unless I'm missing something here).

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:15 pm

Lots of places to buy a laptop....newegg, amazon, dell, etc., etc.

Before buying one though I recommend viewing the requirements from the DAW maker and considering a few other factors.

For example, Avid has very specific recommendations:
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_U ... popup=true

So it will all come down to what you want to do; which DAW you will run, how much RAM you want in it, which CPU, how much you want to spend, etc., etc.

Now, if you have thought it all through and know WHAT you want, finding a place to buy it is a fairly simple process. Google is filled with computrer retailers.

Personally, I think I might consider a custom PC like an ADK, but there are a lot of folks here at KVR that are happily and successfully running Dells. I see the Dell brand mentioned here more than any other.

Don't let the anxiety of buying a Mac and running Windows on it dissuade you. It does work. Lots of people been doing it for years.

I see Macs today though as an overpriced Windows PC. At one time I feel they were worth what they charged for them but now they are just another PC. They have the same innards today. IMHO. YMMV.

The only advantage to owning a Mac, again IMHO, is Logic. It only runs on a Mac. Too bad you can't bootcamp OSX on a PC

Good luck in your seach!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

Thomas_Pynchon · Post by **Thomas_Pynchon** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:45 pm

BDeep wrote:Well, if these are Kontakt sample libraries, they sure are going to work.... Kontakt for Mac uses the same files as Kontakt for Windows. Samples and sample libraries are not as much of a concern (unless I'm missing something here).

Ah right, well then that should work then. Some of the vsts require installation, but most are just raw samples for kontakt, so if I have kontakt for mac then of course all those samples will load.

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:53 pm

Exactly, it's only when you have to install something else (entire plugins) that you require a dedicated Mac version. All libraries themselves should work.

Using Pc Software on MAC laptop as DAW - does it work?