u-he

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:35 pm

UPDATE: Even newer version available:
please continue here:

Bazille 0.9.3 rev2566 > Extended Beta-period until end of August 2014
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=417200

#---

old:

here's an update to Bazille's Beta:

Bazille2435Win.zip

Bazille2435Mac.zip

This hasn't gone through proper internal testing yet, but as the public beta serial expires on Tuesday, we thought you'd appreciate a quick update with a month's extension.

We're now almost through with the things we still wanted to do, but we might not be there for a final release yet. Here's what's new:

UI scaling in steps of 10% (let us know what you think) Note: Scope not yet fixed for resize
Voice Control rewritten for multi-MIDI-channel support (Poly mode acts as "Note Expressions For Anyone" where notes played on a distinct channel receive PitchBend, AT/PolyAT, ModWheel, BC and Expression just on that channel. Mono/Legato modes work like 16 separate instances, one on each channel aka "Guitar Mode"). This stuff does not yet work in Duo mode
on the same subject, much of the Notestealing trouble fixed
New "gearporn" skin added - everything on one *busy* page, no tabbed interface
Snapshot copy/paste/interpolate should work now
A lot more things undo/redo-able
Improved TapMap (less aliasing, proper gain, fixed loading from presets in Multicore mode)
Thru-Zero FM depth independent of quality (automatic fix for existing presets)
Global Finetune now in real Cents (automatic fix for existing presets)

Please check these things out and report anything weird to us. We would like to know about reproducible cases of Notehangers, reproducible cases of undo/redo acting weird and whatever else that may occur to be harmful.

Known Issue: Please do not use lowest or highest note priority with mono/legato modes. This will lead to a hanging note or silence!

You need to register with this temporary serial:

User Name: "Public Beta"

Serial: "X5DY-O21G-HPI4I-IGB42-Y6SX1"

For more info, pricing and all that:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=411650

Thanks & Enjoy,

- Urs

caecos · Post by **caecos** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:49 pm

Thanks, I'll try it at once...

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:15 pm

UI % scaling is great, thanks!

confirmed noticeable less aliasing!

gearporn skin looks very cool!

(but appears to require some contrast finetuning or background vs knob color grid value readjustment or something)

Tap map seems partially fixed.... still fussy about gain in some cases.
try this patch and play up the kb: https://app.box.com/s/h1uvsxl9e4m8i1gl72mc

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:35 pm

Multi channel midi working fantastically

love the gearporn skin too, great when scaled up.
and copy & paste on sequencer makes it so much easier to use.

busy afternoon ahead here.

thanks to Urs (and all at u-he).

NothanUmber · Post by **NothanUmber** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:26 pm

yipeeh!
Tried the multi-MIDI-channel support in EigenD (see this thread for the used settings: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=414785).

Was able to get the poly pitch bend running, works flawlessly!
Have not found out how to bind parameters to poly-CCs though. E.g. midi learning the cutoff parameter of filter 1 to CC1 still seems to "pin" to CC1/channel1 - CC1 only modulates the cutoff if it arrives on channel 1. And if it does then it modulates all voices.

Which parameters can be bound to poly-CCs? And how is this done (was trying the context menu "midi-learn" feature)

Btw.:
Great that up to 16 channels and Pitch Bend as well as selected CCs are supported in multi-MIDI-channel mode - three CCs (or two CCs+Pitch Bend if bending is one of the things that should be controlled for a patch) is both necessary and sufficient for the various "3D expression key" instruments - perfect!
16 parallel notes is more than enough as long as no pedal is involved per instrument. (Some synths only support 6 parallel pitch bends because they just consider midi guitar - but for everything else 8 to 10 voices is what you want!)
Imho a very good compromise between "enabling" poly-expression instruments and sequencing, effort and backwards compatibility!

<Technical blurp>
Aiming for "perfect" poly-expression support is not easy with MIDI - but some attempts were made.
Here an interesting article from somebody who thought about how to work around some of the MIDI restrictions particularly for poly pitchbend. These proposals became kind of a de facto standard for synths on iPads - which can be used as a "2D" per note expression instrument and thus faces similar challenges:
http://rrr00bb.blogspot.de/2012/04/idea ... tocol.html
the article was the result of this discusson:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... eBccjI0q0g
Even though it is "good enough" for many appications it is still a hazzle on the boundaries of what MIDI was designed for (as you can read in more recent postings in the rr00bb blog).

EigenD solves this "challenge" more radically - plugins written with its SDK have the choice between MIDI and an internal, more powerful protocol with unlimited numbers of event bundles (with up to audible range control rate and high resolution) that can arbitrarily be unbundled, individually processed and recorrelated. The approach is quite powerful - but not widely adoped (yet

).
</Technical blurp>

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:35 pm

@NothanUmber .. I just mapped the midi outputs modW, Xpress, press, and then adjust patch if necessary. also the modifier menus work too.

you mention midi learn, i don't think midi learn is the way to go, as I'm not even sure this is stored in the patch
im not sure if the automation vars are per channel, but again id prefer the midi outputs/modifier menus as these are obvious in the patch.

NothanUmber · Post by **NothanUmber** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:48 pm

Ah, ok, thanks! Works as expected that way, great!
Looking for ways to patch cords instead of clicking to context menus totally makes sense for a modular cord patch synth

Back to experimentation mode

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:37 pm

Glad it generally works

MIDI Learn maps globally to knobs, one can't map it per voice.

The only multi channeled controlers are Pitchbend, ModWheel, AT, Expression and Breath Control, sourced from the patch points or from modulation drop downs.

Anything Single Trigger btw. will follow whatever channel the first voice works with. Single Trigger is kind of a difficult concept in this context and something we might invest more work on at a later date.

NothanUmber · Post by **NothanUmber** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:58 pm

Small bug: If you switch to the (totally awesome!) "GearPorn" mode (with 100% zoom), increase the UI size to 140% and switch back to Original mode then the UI is shifted down by a few centimeters (while the mouse click areas are where they should be - so you have to click above the graphics to e.g. switch tabs).

NothanUmber · Post by **NothanUmber** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:08 pm

Btw.: When clicking on the "Bazille 0.9.2 (beta)" text on the top a "Midi controllers" context menu appears that allows to select a number of options. Is "Continuous 14 bit" affecting all CCs? Does this also include the poly-CCs? (If the usual curresponding LSB CCs (e.g. CC 33 for CC1) are used as "14 bit extension" then this would be great - as it is supported out of the box in EigenD for high res midi!) Does this also include 14 bit velocity?
Additionally there is an entry "show midi pages" - is this a midi monitor or an assignment matrix? (Didn't fing the "midi pages" on first sight, neither in tabbed nor or non-tabbed UI mode).

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:18 pm

NothanUmber wrote:Btw.: When clicking on the "Bazille 0.9.2 (beta)" text on the top a "Midi controllers" context menu appears that allows to select a number of options. Is "Continuous 14 bit" affecting all CCs? Does this also include the poly-CCs? (If the usual curresponding LSB CCs (e.g. CC 33 for CC1) are used as "14 bit extension" then this would be great - as it is supported out of the box in EigenD for high res midi!) Does this also include 14 bit velocity?
Additionally there is an entry "show midi pages" - is this a midi monitor or an assignment matrix? (Didn't fing the "midi pages" on first sight, neither in tabbed nor or non-tabbed UI mode).

It's complicated… there should be something in the user guide about this.

Pages need to be coded into the UI script. Only ACE has those as of yet. This area needs more work, and it was added because of a commitment to a controller manufacturer who then hasn't published the controller :-/

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:24 pm

NothanUmber · Post by **NothanUmber** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:40 pm

Urs wrote:
NothanUmber wrote:Btw.: When clicking on the "Bazille 0.9.2 (beta)" text on the top a "Midi controllers" context menu appears that allows to select a number of options. Is "Continuous 14 bit" affecting all CCs? Does this also include the poly-CCs? (If the usual curresponding LSB CCs (e.g. CC 33 for CC1) are used as "14 bit extension" then this would be great - as it is supported out of the box in EigenD for high res midi!) Does this also include 14 bit velocity?
Additionally there is an entry "show midi pages" - is this a midi monitor or an assignment matrix? (Didn't fing the "midi pages" on first sight, neither in tabbed nor or non-tabbed UI mode).
It's complicated… there should be something in the user guide about this.

Pages need to be coded into the UI script. Only ACE has those as of yet. This area needs more work, and it was added because of a commitment to a controller manufacturer who then hasn't published the controller :-/

In the current user guide it isn't described yet, right? So it isn't general high res (14 bit) MIDI support for CCs and velocity but something for a specific controller? Dang.
But back to playing with the (even more important) toys we *did* get

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:14 pm

"Continuous 14 bit" , not in the Ace or Bazille manual (or I couldn't find it), but the Diva and Zebra manual simply says 14 bit CC.

theres a couple of threads about it here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &p=5120437
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 26#5295926

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:43 pm

ghettosynth wrote:I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I found the old tiny/normal/cute/etc. labels useful in a mnemonic sense and considered them one of your best (little) features. I'm actually not a fan of the huge list of resolutions. In a very small way, the new giant list slows down my workflow. I often leave the synths in normal and then pop to large when I edit. It's fast and the synth is a size that I expect. Of course I can do that with specific zoom factors, but they lack the mnemonic strength of the words.

It's just a minor complaint, I'm sure that I'll get used to it, for me though, it's not an improvement.

Well, you can't believe how many people wanted a size "inbetween this or that". It's been a recurring support request since we went into the resize business - I'm sure you'll get used to it quickly!

u-he

KVR Audio

Bazille rev2435