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Kontakt sounds worse in Reaper when audio preferences are not set correctly

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Banned

Postby BachRules; Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:20 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

whyterabbyt wrote:with this particular default, what you hear is what you get.

So if what you hear reflects CPU limitations, then what you get sounds bad.
KVRAF
 
3944 posts since 23 Mar, 2006, from pendeLondonmonium
 

Postby himalaya; Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:35 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

Actually, this setting would be an issue for those who use synths like DCAM Synth Squad with independent oversampling modes.

If someone is using for example, Cypher with the real-time setting at 1x oversampling and the offline option set to, say, 8 x oversampling, the rendered audio would not sound right (with the Reaper 'Inform plugin of the offline render state' option not ticked).

When I saw this topic I was trying to remember how this option is set in Reaper, and yes, that option was not ticked, meaning all my DCAM Synth Squad tracks would have been rendered at the wrong quality setting. Luckily, I have always used Synth Squad in at least the 2x and 4 x oversampling real-time modes so the rendered tracks sounded ok. I'm saying 'ok' as my offline mode was always set to a minimum of 8x oversampling and for more complex presets (complex audio-rate modulation patches) it was set to 16x. Settings which would have been ignored by Reaper...hmm...
Last edited by himalaya on Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design
Banned

Postby BachRules; Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:38 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

Code: Select all
virtual long getCurrentProcessLevel ();
// returns: 0: not supported,
// 1: currently in user thread (gui)
// 2: currently in audio thread or irq (where process is called)
// 3: currently in 'sequencer' thread or irq (midi, timer etc)
// 4: currently offline processing and thus in user thread
// other: not defined, but probably pre-empting user thread.

a plug is like black box processing some audio coming in on some inputs (if any) and going out of some outputs (if any). this may be used to do offline or real-time processing, and sometimes it may be desirable to know the current context.

http://jvstwrapper.sourceforge.net/vst20spec.pdf , pp. 52-53
Banned

Postby BachRules; Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:44 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

himalaya wrote:Actually, this setting would be an issue for those who use synths like DCAM Synth Squad with independent oversampling modes....

You're talking about how Reaper actually sounds (bad), but if I understand the minions correctly, how it actually sounds doesn't matter, and what matters is how cool it is because it's so customizable, if you don't have a job or girlfriend and want to sit around customizing DAWs.

there is a preference in the Reaper preferences called "inform plugins of offline render state"
Indeed I didn't have the setting enabled, thanks for the tip.

Switching it on fixes the issue

http://www.fxpansion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74328
KVRAF
 
40391 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:55 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

Belly acher!!!!!!! :lol:
KVRist
 
213 posts since 26 Aug, 2010

Postby Melodyshine; Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:04 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

The thread has got the right title, because otherwise it would not have caught my attention and now I am aware of a bug. Sometimes exaggerations are needed.
Banned

Postby BachRules; Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:07 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

hibidy wrote:Belly acher!!!!!!! :lol:

"Because sound quality doesn't matter" should be the new Reaper slogan.
KVRAF
 
9367 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:20 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

arkmabat wrote:
trimph1 wrote:
BachRules wrote:
trimph1 wrote:
BachRules wrote:
arkmabat wrote:I'm sure the sound is fine.

That's silly.

You're being silly.

Check Image-line's site for their FL11 manual ...particularly the Saw Wars chapter.

There is no fracking difference between daws soundwise..

So Kontakt is lying when it says it's using lower-quality interpolation for online renders? Do you even begin to understand the issue? I programmed the world's first commercial software synth. I aced CCRMA. If you want to interpret the "Saw Wars chapter" as are you're doing, that's your problem.

Daw Wars....fricking autocorrect..:x


IE: if we do not agree that <Kontakt's 'standard' interpolation> = The Sound of Reaper, we're incompetent. :hihi:
Yeah, your bona fides totally make this logical. :idiot:
User avatar
Beware the Quoth
 
21098 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:36 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

BachRules wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:all I see there

Then something's wrong with your seeing.


I asked for a specific quote. You're still ducking on providing one. If you want to assert I'm missing something, try actually proving it.

whyterabbyt wrote:One of the developers says

That guy is a developer for Reaper? Why do you believe that?


My mistake; I forgot you'd be looking to focus on a different context from the one discussed and left it ('developer') too imprecisely open-ended. In case you think it helps you make that case you're failing to provide any evidence for, read that as 'one of the well-known reaper extension developers'. Now that that's cleared up, you'll have something concrete to back you up from the VST spec, yes?

whyterabbyt wrote:the intent of the default setting is to give you what you hear,

Why do you believe that?


Are you asking why I think not setting a preference which flags plugins to do special-case behaviour is going to produce the same results as the plugins not doing that special-case behaviour?

What are you claiming the results of not setting the special-case-behaviour flag should be? A different special-case-behaviour?
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
User avatar
Beware the Quoth
 
21098 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:40 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

BachRules wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:with this particular default, what you hear is what you get.

So if what you hear reflects CPU limitations, then what you get sounds bad.


So if what you hear reflects any limitations, then what you get reflects those limitations. Its not unknown; you'll be aware ProTools has only ever had realtime bouncing until v11, last year or so, of course?
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
User avatar
Beware the Quoth
 
21098 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:43 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

BachRules wrote:
Code: Select all
virtual long getCurrentProcessLevel ();
// returns: 0: not supported,
// 1: currently in user thread (gui)
// 2: currently in audio thread or irq (where process is called)
// 3: currently in 'sequencer' thread or irq (midi, timer etc)
// 4: currently offline processing and thus in user thread
// other: not defined, but probably pre-empting user thread.

a plug is like black box processing some audio coming in on some inputs (if any) and going out of some outputs (if any). this may be used to do offline or real-time processing, and sometimes it may be desirable to know the current context.

http://jvstwrapper.sourceforge.net/vst20spec.pdf , pp. 52-53


So, still nothing proving the thing you claimed was enshrined in the VST spec (which, in case you try and change the subject was specifically mandated, non-optional, offline host-side default behaviour)
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRAF
 
40391 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:45 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

I love this thread. It's so old school!
Banned

Postby BachRules; Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:43 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

The sweet sound of Reaper:

I'm trying to track down a problem....

I did some more testing on this....

I'm not sure why the default is off.

I have this annoying problem....

In Reaper you just have to check 'inform plug-ins of offline rendering state' checkbox in Preferences.

the spectrum above ~7KHz is audibly muffled even if the filter is fully opened.

I noticed that one of my tracks sounded different when I froze it.

Please try checking "Inform plug-ins of offline rendering state" in Preferences->Plug-ins->VST...Compatibility settings.

Let's start a list of developers who think this is a good sound, so customers know what to expect.
KVRAF
 
2470 posts since 30 May, 2006, from US / Italy

Postby liquidsound; Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:04 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

BachRules wrote:The sweet sound of Reaper:

I'm trying to track down a problem....

I did some more testing on this....

I'm not sure why the default is off.

I have this annoying problem....

In Reaper you just have to check 'inform plug-ins of offline rendering state' checkbox in Preferences.

the spectrum above ~7KHz is audibly muffled even if the filter is fully opened.

I noticed that one of my tracks sounded different when I froze it.

Please try checking "Inform plug-ins of offline rendering state" in Preferences->Plug-ins->VST...Compatibility settings.

Let's start a list of developers who think this is a good sound, so customers know what to expect.
Move on boy... :roll:
MuLab & MUX, Zebra-Bazille-ACE-Diva-Diversion-Dune2-Xils4-Aalto
KVRian
 
1273 posts since 3 Jan, 2005

Postby fedexnman; Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:23 pm Re: Reaper sounds worse than other DAWs

hibidy wrote:I love this thread. It's so old school!

Sheeeeeeet ! Lock this thread . Word to ya Mutha ..... :hihi:
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