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SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
FabienTDR
KVRian
 
573 posts since 23 Feb, 2012

Postby FabienTDR; Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:06 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

BDeep wrote:
deft_bonz wrote:
Halma wrote:Or do it like the gaming industry and start releasing unfinished stuff (only 25% of expected core fuctions, lots of bugs, early alpha stage) for full price and then start releasing a ridiculous amount of "totally awesome" DLCs (minimum of 30+ for the next two years) like new colour schemes, new curves, a cat as a logo...you could even charge them for a updated changelog. As long as it comes as a "totally awesome" DLC.

Or forget everything I wrote and start with an "in eq" currency and make an item shop.

Anyways, congratulations to the whole team. Looking forward in getting mine next month.

Regards
Sebastian



An in-EQ-shop where you can buy different EQ-models. Better: you have to rent the EQ-models and pay per hour :clap: :clap: :clap:

It's interesting how such models work in the game industry generating lotsa money, but in the music business, you'd be out of business before you even start it.


IK has a shop which could be considered DLC, and Waves expects you to pay a yearly fee.
Granted, it's not the same, but it's getting close.


Yes, these models are the future. Oh well, in fact, they are reality for most business-branches these days (CRM, graphic/web design software, Gaming, drop-box in some sense, etc). Not saying they are perfect, but they allow for pretty effective copy protection (the lack of it in traditional models is a huge problem, because natural evolution of "user-habits" simply makes "good" Developer's lives far too difficult). Also, the system keeps your software in sync with the latest product state. Last but not least, I would really prefer being able to rent specific software for short time when I really need it. Melodyne for example, or other special purpose stuff.
Fabien from Tokyo Dawn Records

Check out my audio processors over at the Tokyo Dawn Labs!
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deft_bonz
KVRist
 
149 posts since 12 Dec, 2012, from Switzerland

Postby deft_bonz; Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:14 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

As long as the rent for short times are reasonable, yes. Install the software once (to be ready when you need it), but only pay for it, when you really need it. Plus when you need it more often for a special session, it should cope at a max value and you get the full license forever ;)
stardustmedia
high end analog music services
User avatar
David Else
KVRist
 
303 posts since 9 Nov, 2004

Postby David Else; Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:34 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

I think I am just old school, I want to own my own tools and I don't want my work PC linked to the internet either.

Companies are pushing other models mainly for their own benefit, personally I won't support it. Copy protection and price like SlickEQ GE gets my money, Adobe 'creative cloud', I would rather punch myself in the face :)
User avatar
Tp3
KVRAF
 
1547 posts since 7 Feb, 2007

Postby Tp3; Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:00 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

David Else wrote:Adobe 'creative cloud', I would rather punch myself in the face :)

Strange as it may sound to you, Adobe reported that their revenues from this business model (the cloud) takes a CHUNKY SLICE of of their overall revenues ("adoption of Creative Cloud was stronger than expected").

I wouldn't be surprised if other companies will follow over time.
The whole notion of Analog vs Digital emulation has long gone haywire...
User avatar
FabienTDR
KVRian
 
573 posts since 23 Feb, 2012

Postby FabienTDR; Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:07 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

Yes, that's what I'm seeing everywhere, "the adoption of could services is strong". Not really sure if this really matches the music business special needs (after all, many people are still asking for 60 years old technology and seem happy with it), but I wouldn't wonder if some big players start offering software for rent.
Fabien from Tokyo Dawn Records

Check out my audio processors over at the Tokyo Dawn Labs!
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Halma
KVRian
 
826 posts since 9 Apr, 2012

Postby Halma; Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:25 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

Not quite sure if this is a little bit too offtopic but as a TF2 gamer and Steam user I see more and more audio stuff poppin up on it. Seems to become some kind of "more than a gaming platform" now.

Eg Fruity Loops got greenlight (= dev asks if software would be interesting for steam users, steam users vote, if enough votes come together software will be available...something like that) lately and tons of looppacks flooding Steam and Sonar is also available (iirc)...

But regarding to the "rent idea"...I thought we already have something like that. Lots of licenses grant you only the option to use the software. But you don´t own it. Looks like a "lifetime rent until something happens" concept.

Regards
Sebastian
Underground Music Production: Sound Design, Machine Funk, High Tech Soul https://watchthemkraut.wordpress.com/
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Burillo
KVRAF
 
1526 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:02 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

that's actually a good point. software isn't "owned" as it is. e.g. the plugin discussed in this very thread is NFR. while i understand the reasoning behind it, it doesn't change the fact that even after you purchased your software, a lot of control stays with the author. so i don't see how introducing a "rent" option would be any different from what's already happening - except, perhaps, another additional limitation (time).
From Russia with love
User avatar
FabienTDR
KVRian
 
573 posts since 23 Feb, 2012

Postby FabienTDR; Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:32 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

Burillo, our software licenses are not NFR. I know, I communicated my preference for it before, but had to change my mind due to EU restrictions. It's simply forbidden to sell NFR's in the EU. Such a NFR claim invalidate the whole EULA. Even if more software companies like to make it as difficult as possible.

We allow software license transfer/resale, but not before 6 months after purchase. The new licensee MUST agree to our EULA before use and the seller MUST inform us, so that we can "destroy" his license/account. This is complicated stuff and to be honest, it create a big problem for products not using any sort of "deep" copy protection. In these cases, it's really difficult to keep track if ppl sell their license several time. So, here's the drawback: More expensive and more complicated copy protection schemes, more hosting expenses, product support, etc. Not a win-win, but we have no choice, Tokyo Dawn Records is a German company.

Otherwise, I totally agree. I find that software leasing/renting much better illustrates the true "agreement" between both parties.

Here's the agreement we have in our EULA:
Tokyo Dawn Records does not transfer the title of "TDR VOS SlickEQ - Gentleman's Edition" to you; the license granted to you is not a sale. This agreement is a binding legal agreement between Tokyo Dawn Records and the purchasers or users of "TDR VOS SlickEQ - Gentleman's Edition".



I'm a creative cloud user and very, very happy with the low costs, high mobility and flexibility. I work for several companies and often have to use their own computers. I install creative cloud and a few other tools and I'm ready for work 20 minutes or so. I was sceptical, but it's really great and the cloud aspect improves value by making presets/templates, help and document-exchange more community driven.
Fabien from Tokyo Dawn Records

Check out my audio processors over at the Tokyo Dawn Labs!
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Burillo
KVRAF
 
1526 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:23 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

the fact that you *are* able to set the restriction of not being able to sell for 6 months proves my point :-) try telling that to someone buying hardware...

don't get me wrong, i'm not bashing you in any way and completely understand the hurdles you have to go through to support license transfer, i'm just pointing out the reality of software "licences" vs. hardware "sales".
From Russia with love
Breeze
KVRAF
 
1589 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:16 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

Sorry for continuing this OT, but like any property/rental system, the cloud/rental system can and probably will be abused. But it's also up to the consumer to have discussions with the supplier, and ideally a united front, as in a negotiated front, might be the way of mitigating the excesses.

A friend of mine bought in to Adobe's introductory offer for the creative cloud which I think was $99 for the entire suite originally and on the renewal anniversary they wanted $130. He called support and they asked him, "OK. how much do you want to pay?" He said, "What I'm paying now." The support person put him offline for a moment. And then approved his request. So it seems there is some room for negotiation with Adobe.

But Adobe is constantly evolving their line, and given the sheer number of quality media titles they produce and the number of people using them, $99 sure is a great deal. What value would you out on say the entire Waves catalog? These numbers have to be reconciled with the market penetration of their products. The music industry is far smaller than the desktop publishing industry, and the dev work is often harder.

But then some devs sit on old builds till something significant breaks, and others are constantly changing and improving things on practically a daily basis. I would have no hesitation yearly subscribing to U-he products because their commitment is so clearly to the art, while others seem more committed to the money. Between those extremes is infinite variability, and it's likely that both models will continue the exist as not everyone can show the level of commitment required to justify the ongoing expense.

Again, really sorry for the OT... Sunday morning rant over... ;)
Breeze
KVRAF
 
1589 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:22 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

[double post... ]
kmonkey
KVRAF
 
3182 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Postby kmonkey; Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:50 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

I never understood "we don't want to transfer your license for the next 6 month" thing ? You either do it or you don't?! What's the thing in torturing someone if he decide not to use your plugin anymore-anyway?

If now someone try to convince me that transferring software license from one user account to another is time consuming thing (like you are transferring service parts to international space agency) i am going to stop breathing until i go totally red and off the grid...
fese
KVRist
 
433 posts since 14 Sep, 2004, from $HOME

Postby fese; Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:23 am Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

kmonkey wrote:I never understood "we don't want to transfer your license for the next 6 month" thing ? You either do it or you don't?! What's the thing in torturing someone if he decide not to use your plugin anymore-anyway?

If now someone try to convince me that transferring software license from one user account to another is time consuming thing (like you are transferring service parts to international space agency) i am going to stop breathing until i go totally red and off the grid...


I think the six months is more targeted at people who buy the plugin and sell it off at the next occasion while still keeping and using it, thus saving, I don't know, like 15 bucks or so. And frankly, denying someone a license transfer for six months for a product that costs 30€ and has an excellent freeware pendant that serves as a demo w/o any restrictions hardly qualifies as torture. No one can say he doesn't know what he gets when he buys a TDL VOS plugin.
I think it's a very customer friendly "copy protection", no dongle, no CR, just a dll you can take wherever you go...
User avatar
FabienTDR
KVRian
 
573 posts since 23 Feb, 2012

Postby FabienTDR; Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:22 pm Re: SlickEQ "Gentleman's Edition" - Released!

kmonkey wrote:I never understood "we don't want to transfer your license for the next 6 month" thing ? You either do it or you don't?! What's the thing in torturing someone if he decide not to use your plugin anymore-anyway?

If now someone try to convince me that transferring software license from one user account to another is time consuming thing (like you are transferring service parts to international space agency) i am going to stop breathing until i go totally red and off the grid...


The problem is time and resource based, really. Transferring an account is much more than hitting a button (and even such simple things must be developed and maintained). First of all, you need to build an infrastructure for it, this is very expensive. The license is personal, which means that a transfer requires us to generate a new key for free, destroy the old key and offer the new licensee the customer profile/hosting required to access the updates. Also, there's such things as customer support. For politeness, we'd like to avoid asking for a transaction number on every support request. But this becomes difficult and very lossy as the amount of license transfer grows - up to a theoretical point of reaching bankruptcy. Its pure loss for us, an evil competitor could ruin us by simply buying a product and transferring his license every minute. That's why we ask for 6 months, it's painful enough for us to support license transfers on such low-price products.

To be clear, we do not like license transfers. A personal software license and a piece of hardware are totally different things, really. Hardware doesn't come with free updates, and needs much less support than software products (constantly changing OSs and standards). Software is easily 10 times cheaper than comparable hardware, and in case of SlickEQ, it's closer to 100 if you ask me. If we would sell plugins for 500$, no question. But we're talking about €30. We offer transfers because we have to and because they really make sense in some cases, but it's a huge biz problem, really. For small companies in particular. With software renting models, EU doesn't enforce license-transfer. This alone explains why most software devs really like the idea. ;)
Fabien from Tokyo Dawn Records

Check out my audio processors over at the Tokyo Dawn Labs!
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