What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
KVRAF
 
19782 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:49 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

I make music because I wouldn't know what else to do.
KVRAF
 
9261 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:53 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

Making money or not can't be a way of sorting this per se. Some people found a way to make money and be maximally creative. Sometimes that means working for a popular artist. Sometimes popular artists make great music.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2858 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat
  

Postby ariston; Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:04 pm Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

Hink wrote:I often hear the younger generation (and I was the same way) saying "I dont care what people think" as if that is something to be proud of. Caring what people think is human nature and forme it's part of pride. I think it's hard for you to speak to the motivations of others and that motivation should change as we grow. I just simply cannot agree that the single basic motivation common to everyone is to impress others.


I never said anything about "impressing".. you don't understand what I'm trying to say at all.
I used the words "communicate", and "receive attention". This has nothing to do with trying to impress people, or with any kind of "ego trip" (another word I didn't use, that's yours). You're replying to what you think I said, and not to what I actually said.
KVRAF
 
9261 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:28 pm Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

Well, I was impressed by that remark pretty much as Hink was. ;)

I'm like Hink, in that should someone say 'I hear you play guitar, play something for me', I feel like 'I prefer not'.

I started banging on things at a really young age, on the natch I do believe. A lot of the times my giving in to my impulses irritated people, actually.
I think music, the impulse to make music is more of a thing-in-itself than a product of the human's social nature per se. So I think it's best to speak for yourself rather than for all of us.
User avatar
Rad Grandad
 
24570 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
    

Postby Hink; Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:39 pm Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

ariston wrote:
Hink wrote:I often hear the younger generation (and I was the same way) saying "I dont care what people think" as if that is something to be proud of. Caring what people think is human nature and forme it's part of pride. I think it's hard for you to speak to the motivations of others and that motivation should change as we grow. I just simply cannot agree that the single basic motivation common to everyone is to impress others.


I never said anything about "impressing".. you don't understand what I'm trying to say at all.
I used the words "communicate", and "receive attention". This has nothing to do with trying to impress people, or with any kind of "ego trip" (another word I didn't use, that's yours). You're replying to what you think I said, and not to what I actually said.


it doesn't change that much as I am not seeking to communicate anything, tbh I think communicate is the wrong word and the best word is express. I think most musicians seek to express themselves, but here's the difference and probably why we disagree. Communication takes two or more parties or it's like playing with one walkie-talkie, expression does not require two or more parties. For instance, you stub your toe in the middle of the night and you yell out when no one else can hear, that's expressing yourself without communicating. The same can be said for when you watch tv alone and something funny happens and you laugh out loud when no one hears it, that's expression without communication. How about driving down the road in your car with the stereo cranked up with nobody around, that's expression without communication.

I disagree with any blankets like you threw on this subject, we are not all the same and it's really not your place to tell other people why they do things. These may be your observations but they are not my reality.

In the thread that I started a couple of weeks ago I asked if no one was to hear your music would you still make music? Near the end I explained my point of view, the rest of my post to you that you chose to leave out addressed this as well. The amount of my music that other people have heard in my life is so small (as is for most people I suspect) that for you to say that I am seeking to communicate is not your place. In ten years I have shared maybe 15 minutes of music and I could have played between 5-10,000 hours (alone). See the point, if I am trying to communicate something I am doing a terrible job :hihi: I communicate with words, I express myself with music and there is a difference imo.

It may be different for you, it may be different for others but that is how it is for me :)

edit: BTW the reason I used impress was because you said people seek attention, my bad.
As long as you hate, there will be people to hate
-George Harrison
User avatar
addled muppet weed
 
34207 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:54 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

i dont like people, i often try to communicate this through my art, making it as abrasive and annoying as i can.
recently we where playing at a charity gig and someone congratulated us "that was great, really enjoyed it"
that really pissed me off.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
16116 posts since 27 Jul, 2005, from the wilds of wanny
  

Postby thecontrolcentre; Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:28 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

Which charity?
User avatar
addled muppet weed
 
34207 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:13 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

thecontrolcentre wrote:Which charity?
testicular cancer
a childhood mate died of it several years ago
his sister now organises small local gigs.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2510 posts since 9 Jan, 2003, from Saint Louis MO
  

Postby foosnark; Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:58 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

Hink wrote:think communicate is the wrong word and the best word is express.
...
I communicate with words, I express myself with music and there is a difference imo.


You speak the truth there. Maybe with a capital T.

I would go so far as to say that the reason I found myself tiring of performing with a taiko group is that the emphasis was on communication with the audience and the other players, and not so much on expression. Some songs had solo spaces built in, though sometimes those were as short as two bars -- and even then, the number one priority was to sell the performance rather than to express oneself. Playing and rehearsing with them took time and energy away from my own expression.

I do get a little thrill when people like my music, but I make what I make without concern for whether anyone else understands or enjoys it.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2858 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat
  

Postby ariston; Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:36 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

Hink wrote:
In the thread that I started a couple of weeks ago I asked if no one was to hear your music would you still make music?


You still don't understand what I said. I'm not throwing a blanket over anything, that would be stupid and black-and-white and superficial, and I'm actually offended by the accusation - not to mention the haughty "it's not your place to tell people blah blah cabbage squash". Is it YOUR place, then, to tell people what to do? Seems like it.

Last try:
If there was no music, would you make music? Why did we (humanity) start making music at all? That's what it boils down to. You were taught music by the music and musicians that existed before you - the main element here IS communication.
Psychologically, the music you make "for yourself" is performed before your inner theatre, or your inner representations of other people. It is still communication in that sense (this is just one perspective on the subject, it's not either/or).
On another, different, level, the choice NOT to perform it is communication as well. You can talk to yourself, you can make music for yourself, and you can wank instead of having sex. These are worthwhile pursuits in their own right, but they are still communication. Why? Talking to yourself is saying words others DON'T hear (which, I'm sure you'll agree, can make a huge difference), making music for yourself is depriving others of the chance to hear you, and wanking is sex you DON'T have with another person. You can't not communicate. It's also totally irrelevant if it was your intention to communicate something or not - the meaning of the message is always determined by the receiver, and not the sender. The t-shirt you put on yesterday is communication, as well as your choice of toothpaste or the brand of your guitar strings, or the speck of cereal and egg yolk caught in your beard.

Your choice NOT to perform your music communicates SOMETHING, and that something can be: fear of rejection, snobbishness, spite, auto-eroticism, shyness, or a lot of other things. Does that make it any clearer? I'm not saying these are the ONLY reasons, I'm saying some of these are probably a part of the reason. How you consciously rationalize your behaviour is another thing, and the joy of simply playing and (hear hear!) "expressing" yourself is yet another thing. All parts of the same elephant.

This is simply a philosophical/psychological observation, and it's got nothing to do with the knee-jerk value judgements you seem to see here. I am also not telling other people to do anything, I'm simply talking about "the way I see it", from a certain perspective that I find more interesting than cat pics. If you want to take that as an imperative, or a broad generalization, well, that's your problem. But please make at least some effort to understand before replying, or don't reply at all.
KVRAF
 
13543 posts since 23 Jun, 2010, from north of London ON
 

Postby trimph1; Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:50 am Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

I make noise. Now, if someone hears it as music that is fine by me. :)
Barry
The man who survived mustard gas and pepper spray is now a seasoned veteran
http://www.ambientonline.org/
User avatar
Rad Grandad
 
24570 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
    

Postby Hink; Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:01 pm Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

ariston wrote:
Hink wrote:
In the thread that I started a couple of weeks ago I asked if no one was to hear your music would you still make music?


You still don't understand what I said. I'm not throwing a blanket over anything, that would be stupid and black-and-white and superficial, and I'm actually offended by the accusation - not to mention the haughty "it's not your place to tell people blah blah cabbage squash". Is it YOUR place, then, to tell people what to do? Seems like it.

Last try:
If there was no music, would you make music? Why did we (humanity) start making music at all? That's what it boils down to. You were taught music by the music and musicians that existed before you - the main element here IS communication.
Psychologically, the music you make "for yourself" is performed before your inner theatre, or your inner representations of other people. It is still communication in that sense (this is just one perspective on the subject, it's not either/or).
On another, different, level, the choice NOT to perform it is communication as well. You can talk to yourself, you can make music for yourself, and you can wank instead of having sex. These are worthwhile pursuits in their own right, but they are still communication. Why? Talking to yourself is saying words others DON'T hear (which, I'm sure you'll agree, can make a huge difference), making music for yourself is depriving others of the chance to hear you, and wanking is sex you DON'T have with another person. You can't not communicate. It's also totally irrelevant if it was your intention to communicate something or not - the meaning of the message is always determined by the receiver, and not the sender. The t-shirt you put on yesterday is communication, as well as your choice of toothpaste or the brand of your guitar strings, or the speck of cereal and egg yolk caught in your beard.

Your choice NOT to perform your music communicates SOMETHING, and that something can be: fear of rejection, snobbishness, spite, auto-eroticism, shyness, or a lot of other things. Does that make it any clearer? I'm not saying these are the ONLY reasons, I'm saying some of these are probably a part of the reason. How you consciously rationalize your behaviour is another thing, and the joy of simply playing and (hear hear!) "expressing" yourself is yet another thing. All parts of the same elephant.

This is simply a philosophical/psychological observation, and it's got nothing to do with the knee-jerk value judgements you seem to see here. I am also not telling other people to do anything, I'm simply talking about "the way I see it", from a certain perspective that I find more interesting than cat pics. If you want to take that as an imperative, or a broad generalization, well, that's your problem. But please make at least some effort to understand before replying, or don't reply at all.


no point reasoning with the unreasonable..carry-on
As long as you hate, there will be people to hate
-George Harrison
KVRian
 
1460 posts since 24 Dec, 2005

Postby t3toooo; Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:29 pm Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

hibidy wrote:Make money, f...... bi......es.

I'm not blingy enough though (though I have the FAT beatz)



I always thought you would be well in a motivation trainee position. :hihi:






Honestly,another thread that makes it almost impossible to reply.
The title is too polarizing,black and white...
Well another point might be,who on earth is doing something without expecting something?
If playing an instrument gives me a good feeling than that's all right too.

Lately i'm observing a lot of "versus" threads on kvr but i don't like them,it's the wording that i don't like.
What are we talking about?


Anyone remember those threads "the dead of the music industry" until 7-8 years ago?
The mass media wrote/reported about "this phenomenon" too.
Nowadays we're talking about how to get fame (or not) without realizing that this is the complete opposite?
This kind kind of controversy doesn't clear anything and it's probably more stressful than informative.


On the other hand,anybody ever read in 3D forums?
The situation there is completely different,almost no complains and the money is there for much less skilled works.
For music it is different though.
There is and never was money "available" for music,
Think about those 3D artists,most of this people just grab a public domain track and put them on their videos.

I mean no value.



Creating music to sell it is like selling a book or any other goods.
So the question would be what does my product consists of? Not only the content of lyrics.


You can go the formulaic way to create a track for Beatport you can choose from a limited range of genres,as it is this way on many other sites too.
However,it's getting way more complicated if i ask myself "m i happy with my music?" but i think that's the only way to find out what to improve and to actually work on it .Everybody want to find people that are enjoying the result,why not? (Of course only if they showed it to them :wink: )
KVRAF
 
9261 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:52 pm Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

duplicated
Last edited by jancivil on Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KVRAF
 
9261 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:00 pm Re: There are two kinds of people who make music nowadays

ariston wrote:If there was no music, would you make music? Why did we (humanity) start making music at all? That's what it boils down to.

Why did 'we'? :shrug:

ariston wrote: You were taught music by the music and musicians that existed before you - the main element here IS communication.
Psychologically, the music you make "for yourself" is performed before your inner theatre, or your inner representations of other people. It is still communication in that sense (this is just one perspective on the subject, it's not either/or).

I agree with this premise. But:
ariston wrote:It's totally irrelevant if it was your intention to communicate something or not - the meaning of the message is always determined by the receiver, and not the sender. The t-shirt you put on yesterday is communication, as well as your choice of toothpaste or the brand of your guitar strings, or the speck of cereal and egg yolk caught in your beard.

Your choice NOT to perform your music communicates SOMETHING, and that something can be: fear of rejection, snobbishness, spite, auto-eroticism, shyness, or a lot of other things. Does that make it any clearer? I'm not saying these are the ONLY reasons, I'm saying some of these are probably a part of the reason. How you consciously rationalize your behaviour is another thing, and the joy of simply playing and (hear hear!) "expressing" yourself is yet another thing. All parts of the same elephant.

It's hot in here today and I don't have a thing on. This communicates nothing whatsoever. OTOH: If I go to the trouble to dress for the outside world, I'm trying to get over, yes.

Earlier you said that making music is "out of" a desire to be seen/heard, for attention. "Out of" states this is the impetus. If there is never a receiving end, this can't be true. Also, when you say 'probably a part of the reason', you're only revealing how you think of this.

I would only get out and literally perform if I felt driven for exposure to it in order to make money for it. I'm not, I'd prefer not, I am just not interested enough to put myself through it. It has nothing to do with any of that. It isn't a fear of rejection, my history was getting really positive responses to most things, and when not it was no particular surprise. That decision has nothing to do with anybody but me; 'snobbishness/spite' and all that, means nothing to me. And again, 'I hear you're a musician. Play for me.'? I prefer not. Maybe I would prefer to, trying to get laid, or I'm feeling friendly if you're a friend. But it isn't anything in itself.

However I have shared around 90% of my output since 2009, because it's good, there are people that look for music by me, and people I like appreciate it. I'm not averse to sharing it in any way, but I'm not very driven by what people in general like. I make it for me. I thoroughly enjoy it, I'm the intended audience and beyond that 'you're' like me or 'you' aren't, and if 'you' surely aren't I really have no interest in 'your' opinion.
(Quote around you = universal 'you'.)

This is where you lose people, telling us about you as though it must tell us about us.
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Everything Else (Music related)