Struggling with getting a massive sub/bass/lowend - Tried many suggestions, still no joy :(

[weshakeandbake]

So I badly need your help/advice/suggestions etc on this one. Basically there are a number of tracks that I play in clubs/radio/studio that sound absolutely massive in terms of low end bass or the feeling of sub. There's something about hearing/feeling a massive sub bass in a club that makes people go crazy.

Here is one example of a track that has such a bass I desire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQYrzjbT0j0

Here is another example of a track that has such a bass I desire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFy04sU0_w

Last one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6e84FzRZZk

Up until I anazlyed these tracks in my studio using spectrum analyzers and filters to isolate particular frequencies (in this case the <300Hz) it was only then that I realized that this feeling of 'sub bass' that I talk about and desire is slightly higher to where my ears taught it would be on the spectrum. Is sub bass not <50hz?

The feeling of sub and lowend in these tracks seems to be a lot higher. In some around the 100-250Hz mark and I'm having great trouble creating my own in this frequency range.

Here is the spectrum of Song 1


Here is the spectrum of Song 3


In track 1 you can see and feel sub bass at 61Hz and 104Hz
In track 2 you can see and feel sub bass at 82Hz and 94Hz

When I volume match & A/B these tracks with my tracks I feel that <50Hz looks and sounds pretty identical. This is where I taught sub bass and the feeling low bass was heard & felt. It's really from 60-150Hz where all the real magic is. When I HP filter and remove everything <50Hz I only loose the kick drum. The feeling of bass & sub is prominent still.

However my spectrum looks pretty identical to the pros when level matched by RMS from 60-150Hz. However my tracks sound very thin here and no real feeling of bass/sub can be heard.

I have researched and looked into solutions to my problem many times but have failed to recreate anything similar. I usually use a sine/square wave hitting the sub region of 60-150Hz but still sounds weak compared to the pros. I tried using plugins like RBass, MaxBass from waves and other plugins to bring up higher harmonics in the spectrum but still no joy. I experiment with many different synths from my Virus, Massive, MiniMoog etc... but still nothing sounds as big and subby as the pro's.

Am I missing something here? My mix is clean under 120Hz bar kick & sub so I don't think anything is masking/conflicting with my sub's. I've even tried adding higher harmonics manually recreating the note in higher octaves but they always sound too high pitched and begin to sound like a lead and not a sub or the feeling of low bass.

This song for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVAbC5aHHxc
has the usual sub/low bass playing 50-100Hz range but it also has a massive bass sound around 133Hz
As I said when ever I reproduce such a bass sound at this frequency it doesn't sound bass/suby it's more high pitched.


TLDR: My sub bass/lowend/feeling of bass/subs is thin and doesn't sound/feel as big as the pros. I've tried square/sine waves harmonics/distortion/saturation etc and still no joy.

Any ideas how I could improve in this area. Thanks guys

[PurpleSunray]

1) Forget about looking a peak-spectrum. To see the "massiveness" need to know about the dynamics, i.e. if both peak at -6db but one is compressed as hell, while the other isn't, peak looks same, but loudness differs significantly. Same for volume / gain peak values.
2) Song 1 lacks a low-cut. Frequencies below 20-30Hz aren't really useful, they just consume headroom you could spend on useful frequencies otherwise.
3) Don't mix up "punch" with "sub". Most ppl that want to make their basslines more massive think the need to add sub, but actually they lack "punch" - so problem is more likely between 150-300Hz than 40-150Hz (as you can see comparing song 1 to 3, there is quite a difference on that area)

[weshakeandbake]

I think there's nothing wrong with looking at a spectrum analyser in real time and A/Bing my project with the above songs once everything is volume matched by RMS and I'm using my ears at the same time.

1. Good point on the dynamics but I've tried compressing/limiting the sub frequencies/low bass/mid bass etc and even with the same RMS in this area they still feel and sound much boomier/bass/thump/sub what ever you want to call it to describe the feeling of real low nice subs.

2. Both 3 tracks share a pretty identical spectrum under 50Hz. I know the picture of track 1 looks like it has less 20/30 than the other but in real time they're pretty identical.

3. My track in the 150-300Hz area does lack the feeling of bass here, wouldn't describe it as lacking punch. The main culpret here is 60-150hz. This (when I isolate and listen to only this range) is where the massive low rubble of sub/low bass can be heard felt & seen (using a sepctrum)

Thanks for the reply, are you able to create such a bass/lowend that I desire? Would love to hear some audio if you do.

[weshakeandbake]

I think there's nothing wrong with looking at a spectrum analyser in real time and A/Bing my project with the above songs once everything is volume matched by RMS and I'm using my ears at the same time.

1. Good point on the dynamics but I've tried compressing/limiting the sub frequencies/low bass/mid bass etc and even with the same RMS in this area they still feel and sound much boomier/bass/thump/sub what ever you want to call it to describe the feeling of real low nice subs.

2. Both 3 tracks share a pretty identical spectrum under 50Hz. I know the picture of track 1 looks like it has less 20/30 than the other but in real time they're pretty identical.

3. My track in the 150-300Hz area does lack the feeling of bass here, wouldn't describe it as lacking punch. The main culpret here is 60-150hz. This (when I isolate and listen to only this range) is where the massive low rubble of sub/low bass can be heard felt & seen (using a sepctrum)

Thanks for the reply, are you able to create such a bass/lowend that I desire? Would love to hear some audio if you do.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Click this link!

Ever wondered why your favourite producers' kicks and basslines sound so gratifying? RA's Jono Buchanan boldly crosses the low frequency minefield to tell you why.

[weshakeandbake]

Hey ZenPunkHippy thanks for the link, it's a great article. I've read that and already know about all those tips & tricks. It's great for beginners to get a kick & bass to sit well and work well together but unfortunately it does not help you to getting the big sub booming bass I need.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Then I would guess you are doing something fundamentally wrong somewhere ... difficult to say what, though.

I'd been asking the same question, the advice in that article sorted it out for me or provided enough clues about where to make changes.

Dismissing it as an article for "beginners" is probably not what's required at this point btw, since you aren't getting the sound you want No offence intended ...

Peace,
Andy.

[weshakeandbake]

Could you be so kind to PM me some of your work? Would love to see if you've got that low end sound that is keeping me awake every night driving me mad

I didn't mean to dismiss the article as I said it's great and the knowledge shared in it will help you to a great clean kick & bass mix - no question about that.

However, if you listen to the above examples I provided they are no ordinary bass/sub. They stand out for me in the clubs/radio/my studio.

This is bugging me big time. Thanks for the reply dude

[ZenPunkHippy]

This isn't about my music, but FWIW last time I played on a decent sized set of speakers no one complained about the lack of bass.

It would be far more productive if you posted examples of your own track(s) that you're having trouble with, and asked for advice on how to improve or fix the sound. To someone more experienced it might be really obvious.

Plus, sound is what we're dealing with, not pixels ...

[robogone]

This isn't about my music, but FWIW last time I played on a decent sized set of speakers no one complained about the lack of bass.

...and when you produce the 'brown note' they do nothing but complain that their night has been ruined...

[ZenPunkHippy]

...and when you produce the 'brown note' they do nothing but complain that their night has been ruined...

And please, no pictures!

[PurpleSunray]

I think there's nothing wrong with looking at a spectrum analyser in real time and A/Bing my project with the above songs once everything is volume matched by RMS and I'm using my ears at the same time.

1. Good point on the dynamics but I've tried compressing/limiting the sub frequencies/low bass/mid bass etc and even with the same RMS in this area they still feel and sound much boomier/bass/thump/sub what ever you want to call it to describe the feeling of real low nice subs.

2. Both 3 tracks share a pretty identical spectrum under 50Hz. I know the picture of track 1 looks like it has less 20/30 than the other but in real time they're pretty identical.

3. My track in the 150-300Hz area does lack the feeling of bass here, wouldn't describe it as lacking punch. The main culpret here is 60-150hz. This (when I isolate and listen to only this range) is where the massive low rubble of sub/low bass can be heard felt & seen (using a sepctrum)

Ofc there is nothing wrong looking at the spectrum.. I usually spend countless hours infront if it you just look at wrong thing if you want see the "massivess"

1) I'm not even talking you compression anything, but about that you should put your spectrum analyser into "mastering" oder "dynamic" mode (or however called on your plugin), or concentrate more on looking at the differnce between the red and transparent-red line if that's avg vs peak. Peak-only doesn't really tell you a lot

2) At the very low end the freq of 1 goes up, while 2 goes down. This is usually indicates missing low-cut, a hpf woudn't open up at lower end, but maybe mastered with EQ instead of hpf.. who knows, just always suspicious if i see it somewhere

is where the massive low rubble of sub/low bass can be heard felt & seen (using a sepctrum)

Are you using any kind of multiband-distortion or compression on your bass? If so, try pushing/compressing arround that 150Hz while keeping the rest. If you have no multiband stuff, get some, you can't finetune engery of your bass if compression/distortion always affect the whole spektrum

Thanks for the reply, are you able to create such a bass/lowend that I desire? Would love to hear some audio if you do.

I'm a saw-bass, no sine-bass guy.. my basslines usually sound like
https://soundcloud.com/mfr/zero-point-module-nucular

Can't tell you in detail how to achive what you'r looking for, just some generic hints

[ZenPunkHippy]

So I badly need your help/advice/suggestions etc on this one. Basically there are a number of tracks that I play in clubs/radio/studio that sound absolutely massive in terms of low end bass or the feeling of sub. There's something about hearing/feeling a massive sub bass in a club that makes people go crazy.

Here is your answer. Someone was kind enough to post a tutorial for re-creating a well known Neelix bass line. If you can't get your subs rocking with this tutorial you need another hobby

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 0#p5823450

Video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohWKGZmz1c

*edit - he put the original video back with voice over

[sbrennt]

personally, I find bass to sound extremely satisfying when the kick drum and bass are happy with each other. for example, If i have a kick drum with lots sub frequencies, and i have a bass sound with lots of low-end, I need to be mindful if they are fighting for the same frequency range. for example, if i want the kick's sun frequencies to really hit around 60hz, i need to make sure the bass is not inhabiting that frequency zone, which may require some eq cuts in that area.

another trick I use for big bass is layering. Sometimes I will find a very aggressive bass sound that is more prominent in the low mids (100hz-500hz), but is lacking sub frequency information. maybe the sound has sub frequency information, but it is simply not "big" enough. I'll layer that sound with a sine wave oscillator, about an octave lower, and that usually gives me that sub bass i'm looking for. to make sure both layers aren't fighting each other in the low end, i'll cut everything below 100 on the first layer, and cut the low mids out of the sine wave sound.

This technique has its own sound/flavor that you may not like, but I find it very effective.