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Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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ferez21
KVRian
 
1051 posts since 12 Oct, 2012, from The Holy Land

Postby ferez21; Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:30 am Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

I didn't want to snatch the TB Flx thread, so i'll ask my question in my own fancy thread 8)
So, my small brain and lack of intuition are telling me that a dynamic equalizer is pretty much a multiband compressor.

How far am i from reality?
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kylen
KVRAF
 
2041 posts since 18 Sep, 2003, from West Virginia USA

Postby kylen; Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:37 pm

To my way of thinking a dynamic EQ node (see Melda for example) that allows gain control based on the level of an input signal is very similar to a multiband compressor.

The difference might be in the detail concerning how the frequency bands work - crossover style (Ozone) vs band-limited frequency range (Sonalksis CQ1) or FFT/spectral (Reaper ReaFIR) style. Also choice of detectors might make a diff...some compressor experts might stop by and comment on that. Or even Mr. Dynamic EQ 'PlatinumEars' who has developed a few might have some better semantics about the actual differences.

I'm kinda with you though, dynamic gain control, by any other name - didn't Shakespeare have a play about dynamic EQs & compressors? :hihi:
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Tp3
KVRAF
 
1597 posts since 7 Feb, 2007

Postby Tp3; Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:09 pm

kylen wrote:didn't Shakespeare have a play about dynamic EQs & compressors? :hihi:

Yes.

The famous quote from him (that later got shifted one letter down) goes like that :

"To C, or not to C: that is the question" (C stands for "Compress")

And he continues, discussion the notion of Native (VST) and audio quality (resolution) :

"...And thus the native hue of resolution"


:hihi:
The notion of "options" works like a potion of distortion
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11508 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:34 pm

We can indeed talk about "dynamic gain control of certain frequencies" in this case.

A certain signal is being analysed like a compressor (attack) and reacts after a certain threshold is reached or stepped over (threshold). From then on, the desired filter band is either attenuated or boosted - depending on the tool you use.

To a certain extend, it is a compressor or "leveling amplifier" (as they were once called), but instead of limiting the dynamic range of a signal, it changes the gain values of an EQ frequency band.


Sounds simple, yet it's really hard to control in reality. You can mess up a lot, especially on full spectrum mixes. Individually, it might be your holy grail for deessing, or giving that extra "punch" of a snare that can't be recreated with a transient designer, a normal EQ or even compression. But in turn, it's not the ultimate weapon either.


A good starting point for understanding this this particular video by Dennis Ward, guest tutor for HOFA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16DtTdzX1pE
ericj23
KVRAF
 
2355 posts since 25 Aug, 2002, from here

Postby ericj23; Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:48 pm

Surely the really interesting use of dynamic eq is when it is side chained - so the bass drum ducks the bass guitar etc

So space in the mix can be controlled without affecting the dynamic range the way a compressor does
down boy
djeroen
KVRist
 
185 posts since 14 Sep, 2006

Postby djeroen; Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:51 pm

ferez21 wrote:I didn't want to snatch the TB Flx thread, so i'll ask my question in my own fancy thread 8)
So, my small brain and lack of intuition are telling me that a dynamic equalizer is pretty much a multiband compressor.

How far am i from reality?


I'd say they are related to the extent you can have different dynamics in various frequency ranges.
There is a difference though. A multi-band compressor splits the signal into a few frequency bands
(usually 4) and computes time-varying gains for each band. This gain is subsequently applied
to all frequencies in that band. The drawback of this, is the crossovers are usually quite steep,
which does not always sound good, because the resulting frequency response has quite steep edges.

A dynamic equalizer such as TB FlX builds an updated filter characteristic continuously over time, without being
limited by a set of 3 cross-over frequencies. This filter can therefore be much smoother, often resulting in more transparent behavior. You can make it steep nevertheless, by placing nodes close together in frequency.
g_loughnan
KVRer
 
29 posts since 20 Feb, 2010

Postby g_loughnan; Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:06 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

Hi guys,

Sorry to drag up an old thread, I tried starting a new thread, but no response unfortunately. What is really bugging me is understanding how the filter attenuation/boost is triggered on a dynamic eq (not multiband compressor). So, for example, for a de-esser around 7 kHz, is it the level estimation (to drive the filter gain control) carried out on the full input band or is there a band-pass filter around 7 kHz behind the scenes somewhere?

Any light shed on this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Ger
paterpeter
KVRAF
 
1698 posts since 15 Oct, 2008, from Germany

Postby paterpeter; Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:51 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

g_loughnan wrote:Hi guys,

Sorry to drag up an old thread, I tried starting a new thread, but no response unfortunately. What is really bugging me is understanding how the filter attenuation/boost is triggered on a dynamic eq (not multiband compressor). So, for example, for a de-esser around 7 kHz, is it the level estimation (to drive the filter gain control) carried out on the full input band or is there a band-pass filter around 7 kHz behind the scenes somewhere?

Any light shed on this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Ger

This depends on the plugin's implementation. For example, the dynamic EQs by Melda Production allow you to choose per band what to use (filtered signal or whole spectrum).

Pro-MB even allows to choose the sidechain frequency range independently of the band frequency range. So you could have the bass trigger compression on the hi-hats.

So, there's no fixed rule. However, using a filtered side-chain is probably the more usual and arguably more usable approach. For example, if you use the EQ as a de-esser it should really only react to the critical frequencies.Why should it muffle the higher frequencies of a hard hitting kick drum?
g_loughnan
KVRer
 
29 posts since 20 Feb, 2010

Postby g_loughnan; Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:13 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

Hi paterpeter,

Thank you for your quick response. This is the way I imagined that a dynamic EQ should work, but I couldn't find any definite description. I downloaded the trial version of Melda Production's MDynamicEQ and played around with that, but for each band, I could not see what signal was triggering the gain augmentation of the filters. Your response makes sense and clears up my confusion so thanks again.

Another curiosity I have; is it most common to have a linear attack & decay envelope? Is it worth having a non-linear (in the dB scale) attack or decay?

Thanks
Ger
g_loughnan
KVRer
 
29 posts since 20 Feb, 2010

Postby g_loughnan; Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:40 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

Another query (really sorry for bombarding with questions!).. On the MDynamicEQ, I don't see how the amount of filter gain boost/attenuation is calculated. I assumed that this would be done the same as a dynamic compressor where you have a compression ratio curve.. but I don't see any such parameters/controls for this. What is the normal procedure for calculating dynamic EQ gain boost/attenuation?
robertszalapski
KVRist
 
179 posts since 29 May, 2010, from Austin

Postby robertszalapski; Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:40 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

Basically, it is inferred from the threshold and maximum. Really, it doesn't have the same paradigm, and you should just use it to solve a few problems until you get a feel for it.
No_Use
KVRAF
 
1743 posts since 13 Mar, 2004

Postby No_Use; Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:51 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

g_loughnan wrote:Another query (really sorry for bombarding with questions!).. On the MDynamicEQ, I don't see how the amount of filter gain boost/attenuation is calculated. I assumed that this would be done the same as a dynamic compressor where you have a compression ratio curve.. but I don't see any such parameters/controls for this. What is the normal procedure for calculating dynamic EQ gain boost/attenuation?


Rightclick on the EQ points and you'll see the parameters.
shane1980
KVRian
 
671 posts since 5 Feb, 2005, from Canada

Postby shane1980; Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:29 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

Dynamic EQ and Multiband compressor are two different thing. EQ does not have an evenlop while Compressor have.
Free Mixing Tutorials at
http://www.supremepiano.com/learn1.html
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
21640 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:38 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

shane1980 wrote:Dynamic EQ and Multiband compressor are two different thing. EQ does not have an evenlop while Compressor have.


And yet TB FlX, for example, has Attack and Release controls per section. So does the Melda one. And PlatinumEars' IQ4. You have used a dynamic EQ, havent you?
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
shane1980
KVRian
 
671 posts since 5 Feb, 2005, from Canada

Postby shane1980; Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:35 am Re: Isn't a dynamic equalizer, practically a multiband compressor?

whyterabbyt wrote:
shane1980 wrote:Dynamic EQ and Multiband compressor are two different thing. EQ does not have an evenlop while Compressor have.


And yet TB FlX, for example, has Attack and Release controls per section. So does the Melda one. And PlatinumEars' IQ4. You have used a dynamic EQ, havent you?


I have used some ancient dynamic EQ, do not have envelop control at all. None of above plugin I have used. As I said, they only looks like similar, but they are two things. One is called EQ, and another is called compressor. It makes no sense if they are practically one thing.
Free Mixing Tutorials at
http://www.supremepiano.com/learn1.html
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