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KVRAF
 
6023 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California
 

Postby Uncle E; Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:47 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Shy wrote:Many limitations removed, much more flexibility and freedom, building your own patches (algorithms) with many more layers, much larger size and complexity possible, various additional processors, filters etc. In short, huge improvement.


Wow! I agree with all the things you guys have been saying about Kurzweil synths, they're excellent.
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KVRian
 
1025 posts since 6 May, 2005, from Michigan, USA
 

Postby Vectorman; Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:16 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Uncle E wrote:
Vectorman wrote:If you want a hybrid vector or full-fledged wavetable scanning synth with analog filters, you still have to buy something from 20 or 30 years ago instead of a new DSI.


Poly Evolver wasn't good for that?

The PE didn't do vector synthesis or wavetable scanning, so not really. It could make choppy discrete steps through the list of waveforms under sequencer control (more like Wavestation-esque wavesequencing), but not the kind of wave scans one usually associates with a PPG.

I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on DSI. That "came so close to a Prophet VS MKII and had it snatched away" feeling was just hard to get past for me. Given the synthesis types I have an affinity for, I'd probably be better off just going with a Solaris if I wanted to splurge on an upscale synth.
KVRAF
 
6023 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California
 

Postby Uncle E; Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:26 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Vectorman wrote:Given the synthesis types I have an affinity for, I'd probably be better off just going with a Solaris if I wanted to splurge on an upscale synth.


It's a beautiful thing. I love the Scope version but I think you really need all that DSP in the keyboard to get proper use out of it. A used one recently sold on eBay for close to new price so people do apparently appreciate what it's capable of.
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KVRAF
 
3941 posts since 23 Mar, 2006, from pendeLondonmonium
 

Postby himalaya; Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:33 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Shy wrote:I especially love FM synths, but I don't consider them "not VA", because all the important synths that are referred to as such, are as fundamentally subtractive and analog synth inspired as it gets, with only two main differences - being a much (MUCH) more compact solution and having essentially perfect stability which is not feasible with analog implementations. But otherwise, hardly "not VA".

Interesting. I can see how you arrive at that conclusion, but I'm not sure about it. :)

Perhaps, it could be said that FM synths take their inspiration from subtractive analog designs - to some degree - but the whole working method and the end result is very 'digital' in nature. There is nothing VA about the DX7 for example, at least in my understanding.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design
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ew
KVRAF
 
9301 posts since 22 Jul, 2002, from Eagan, MN

Postby ew; Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:48 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Keep an eye on Stephan Schmitt's new company.

http://nonlinear-labs.de/

ew
A spectral heretic...

Camel Audio | NI forums
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KVRAF
 
1898 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America
  

Postby Jace-BeOS; Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:14 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Could someone explain kurzweil's VAST? I've never seen a sensible or meaningful explanation.
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KVRAF
 
3734 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:44 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Jace-BeOS wrote:Could someone explain kurzweil's VAST? I've never seen a sensible or meaningful explanation.


It's really marketing for a somewhat flexible mostly subtractive, more west coast than east coast, synth architecture with a few tricks, e.g., some ability to do FM. The original K2K has a selection of blocks that you can select to process samples. In the simplest form you can use up to four blocks which are simple filters, wavefolders, etc. Some of the blocks were more complex than others and had more parameters, and some took more than one "block space." Some of the blocks added a waveform, e.g., a sine wave. You could create several (three IIRC) layers for most sounds. There were originally 31 "algorithms" for combining the four blocks in various sizes and series parallel arrangements. For example, one block might feed the sample into two blocks of size one which were then mixed into a block of size two. You had a fixed set of choices for each of the blocks and a lot of the sound planning involved figuring out which of the major features that you wanted to use and how that drove your algorithm choice. If you wanted to use the big four pole filter with resonance, for example, you had few choices.

Later variants allowed you to run up to three of these layer sets in parallel, and the most recent variant apparently allows even more flexibility.

There is a LOT of modulation flexibility though, including the ability to apply functions to existing modulation sources. It really is still quite powerful, but not really worth bothering with today for most.

YMMV.
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Beware the Quoth
 
21171 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:34 am Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

waltercruz wrote:Ambika is a V.A?

http://mutable-instruments.net/ambika


No, a hybrid, just like it says on the page: "digital waveform synthesis through analog VCF/VCAs"
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRist
 
333 posts since 9 Jul, 2012

Postby secretkillerofnames; Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:57 am Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Shbobo Synth

Is digital.
Isn't virtual analog.
Uses opcodes.
:party:
KVRian
 
840 posts since 17 Apr, 2005
 

Postby JCJR; Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:49 am Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

secretkillerofnames wrote:Shbobo Synth

Is digital.
Isn't virtual analog.
Uses opcodes.
:party:


These guys could make a shbobo scream-- http://youtube.com/watch?v=unHdBXmqRkk

Should I ever finish a surf album, have plans for an electronic album titled "Turn That That Dam Thing Off Before It Gets On My Last Nerve". :) Maybe a shbobo paired with a polivoks! http://youtube.com/watch?v=dl-Kp7OWkAI
KVRist
 
333 posts since 9 Jul, 2012

Postby secretkillerofnames; Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:00 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

JCJR wrote:Should I ever finish a surf album, have plans for an electronic album titled "Turn That That Dam Thing Off Before It Gets On My Last Nerve". :) Maybe a shbobo paired with a polivoks! http://youtube.com/watch?v=dl-Kp7OWkAI


Fishing in Siberia! Nice idea.
KVRian
 
840 posts since 17 Apr, 2005
 

Postby JCJR; Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:06 pm Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Well I like kraftwerk and in the proper mood enjoy quirky sounds. There is a certain charm to the polivoks which apparently with the mere accidental twitch of a knob, can instantly transform from simple bass synth into the sound of godzilla biting mothra in the balls!

We were drinking morning coffee, wife reading a potboiler and I was on the tablet trying to find what I recalled the most charming youtube example of "pocket calculator." Youtube has many versions of that classic.

After playing a half-dozen pocket calculator videos, looking for the one I recalled most charming, wife offered the offhand comment, "That music sounds rather repetitious."

On the chance that this might be an encrypted coded transmission, I fetched the Captain Midnight decoder pendant and character by character laboriously made the translation. The translation finally complete-- Leaving unencrypted clear text-- "Turn that dam thing off before it gets on my last nerve!" :)
KVRian
 
544 posts since 22 Aug, 2002, from on the inside looking out

Postby suthnear; Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:49 am Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

Speaking of Mutable Instruments, the Shruthi is another interesting hybrid. Besides VA-ish waveforms, it offers phase distortion, phase modulation and wavetable oscillators. Many of these sound unashamedly digital. It's actually possible to build an entirely digital version, too. Their Braids module for eurorack goes further to offer physical modelling and VOSIM as well.
KVRist
 
37 posts since 2 Dec, 2013, from Huntsville, AL USA

Postby cornutt; Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:32 am Re: Will there ever be any new hardware digital synths that aren't "virtual analog"?

JCJR wrote:Should I ever finish a surf album, have plans for an electronic album titled "Turn That That Dam Thing Off Before It Gets On My Last Nerve". :) Maybe a shbobo paired with a polivoks! http://youtube.com/watch?v=dl-Kp7OWkAI


If you finish it, I'll buy it just for that title. :D
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