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Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

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KVRist
 
117 posts since 4 Jul, 2012, from Eastern Europe

Postby cocoazenith; Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:44 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

Essentially there is no difference between a gift sent by the buyer and a higher price that includes tax.
Advertising an atractive price but not taking responsability for it, is a no-no in my book.
KVRist
 
106 posts since 29 Nov, 2011

Postby Ryan99; Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:12 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

I had a similar experience on Ebay. There was a sale for a new license of Ableton Live 8 Suite with free upgrade to 9 Suite. There was already many buyers, the seller had good reputation and comments, so I made the purchase and paid with Paypal. Everything went well, I got my license, registration on Ableton website was fine. Then, a couple of days later, Ableton contacted me to tell me they had to deactivate my license, because it was bought with a fraudulous credit card. I made a claim to Paypal, the seller never replied, but I got my money back.

From that day on, I don't pay with Paypal gift, because there is always the chance that Paypal will cover for you if you buy a software. I only bought once on KVR with Paypal gift, but it was with a seller I had recently bought something and it was for a small amount.
KVRian
 
598 posts since 17 Sep, 2007

Postby SAW75; Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:40 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

billcarroll wrote:
SAW75 wrote:
chk071 wrote:
SAW75 wrote:I don't make money on selling software. It's a hobby. Paypal can make money off of businesses and individuals profiting off selling through them.

Mhm. One could actually justify using warez with the same argument. "Why should i pay for it when the big producers and musicians already do?" Managing Paypal accounts, and managing transcations IS a cost factor for Paypal, regardless if you're a big business or not. There is no distinction, you use their service, you have to pay for their service.



Your opinion is not important to me. I will continue to use the gift option. Someone wants to pay the fees while saving 50%+ on software, fine with me.


Seems like a totally watertight argument for theft.

PayPal user agreement:

Code: Select all
4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase.


Call it what you want. I buy, sell and use legal software because for me that is what's moral. Contracts and legality have nothing to do with it. I don't have the same feeling about Paypal fees. It's really as simple as that.

I hope you can entertain yourself with my honesty. I could lie but that wouldn't be fun for you or the other judges here.
User avatar
KVRian
 
1116 posts since 9 Dec, 2011

Postby billcarroll; Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:44 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

SAW75 wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
SAW75 wrote:
chk071 wrote:
SAW75 wrote:I don't make money on selling software. It's a hobby. Paypal can make money off of businesses and individuals profiting off selling through them.

Mhm. One could actually justify using warez with the same argument. "Why should i pay for it when the big producers and musicians already do?" Managing Paypal accounts, and managing transcations IS a cost factor for Paypal, regardless if you're a big business or not. There is no distinction, you use their service, you have to pay for their service.



Your opinion is not important to me. I will continue to use the gift option. Someone wants to pay the fees while saving 50%+ on software, fine with me.


Seems like a totally watertight argument for theft.

PayPal user agreement:

Code: Select all
4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase.


Call it what you want. I buy, sell and use legal software because for me that is what's moral. Contracts and legality have nothing to do with it. I don't have the same feeling about Paypal fees. It's really as simple as that.

I hope you can entertain yourself with my honesty. I could lie but that wouldn't be fun for you or the other judges here.


We are all just giving our opinion here. Nobody here can stop you from stealing as far as I know.
KVRian
 
598 posts since 17 Sep, 2007

Postby SAW75; Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:49 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

billcarroll wrote:We are all just giving our opinion here. Nobody here can stop you from stealing as far as I know.

Great.
User avatar
ATS
KVRAF
 
4314 posts since 20 Dec, 2002, from MD USA
 

Postby ATS; Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:21 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

Are you all part owners in paypal or something? Why the hell do you care what OTHER people do so much? If someone wants to pay me with a gift I am certaintly not going to say no. I don't make people do it but a lot do. If you don't like it blow me. :wink:
User avatar
KVRAF
 
1857 posts since 5 Nov, 2009
 

Postby arkmabat; Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:49 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

SAW75 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote: and as already pointed out, its peanuts.


It's never "peanuts" when a buyer wants to save a few bucks. I've lost sales over not wanting to negotiate down less than 5 bucks.

I will continue to use the gift option when I can come to an agreement with a buyer. Most of the time my sales are a gift. I don't make money on selling software. It's a hobby. Paypal can make money off of businesses and individuals profiting off selling through them.

The fees aren't really peanuts to me and add up with transfer fees, etc...


2.9% + $0.30 is much cheaper than sales tax... of course that is a whole other can of worms if you're in the US. Some states are more concerned about "use tax" than others though.
User avatar
KVRian
 
1116 posts since 9 Dec, 2011

Postby billcarroll; Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:03 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

ATS wrote:Are you all part owners in paypal or something? Why the hell do you care what OTHER people do so much? If someone wants to pay me with a gift I am certaintly not going to say no. I don't make people do it but a lot do. If you don't like it blow me. :wink:


Whatever else might happen, I'm almost certain this cunning strategy is not gonna get you blown.
User avatar
ATS
KVRAF
 
4314 posts since 20 Dec, 2002, from MD USA
 

Postby ATS; Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:31 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

billcarroll wrote:
ATS wrote:Are you all part owners in paypal or something? Why the hell do you care what OTHER people do so much? If someone wants to pay me with a gift I am certaintly not going to say no. I don't make people do it but a lot do. If you don't like it blow me. :wink:


Whatever else might happen, I'm almost certain this cunning strategy is not gonna get you blown.




:lol: haha nice one
KVRist
 
290 posts since 22 Dec, 2009

Postby frankz00; Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:17 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

PayPal has taken the side of false claimaints on eBay for me to have any sympathy for them over lost gift fees. I had legit sales that I delivered and submitted proof of delivery to them and they still sided with the false claim. The gift fees they "lose" are pennies compared to the dollars a good amount of sellers have lost on false claims.
KVRist
 
290 posts since 22 Dec, 2009

Postby frankz00; Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:22 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

pinki wrote:It's an interesting argument really. I do find it amazing that people will do the right thing by the big banks after what they did to the world over the last 10 years…I mean truly immoral and not ok.

But that wasn't PayPal of course. I guess I've not seen using the gift option as so reprehensible as some people here find it. Perhaps it is. I always thought it was about trusting the honesty of the exchange and not needing PayPal's (somewhat flaky) insurance.

But maybe that's a naive view…I guess to clarify my post, what I was saying was I like to trust people and given the choice I choose not to go for insurance thank you. But I can see this is breaking a rule. However I have given LOTS of money to PayPal over the years but generally not selling software here…..I'm fine with that but if it upsets some people I'm sorry.


PayPal is no angel. They have aided an abetted scammers multiple times to the point that I'm thinking of shuttering my whole eBay gig. I have no sympathy for them over the piddly fees they might lose on gift charges. No one can dictate how you choose to pay anyway. If the risks are known then I don't see the problem. Besides, you're still paying the fee if you choose gift, otherwise, the receiver pays. Where's the "cheating"?
KVRist
 
290 posts since 22 Dec, 2009

Postby frankz00; Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:25 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

billcarroll wrote:
oxygenmask wrote:Before we all oooooh and ahhhhhh at the wonder that is Paypal, let's keep in mind that that it is a corrupt service with customer service issues that would put any business to shame. Let's try to keep how wonderful Paypal is and all it's miracles and blessings in perspective here people. Read a few articles before defending it to the end.


Then don't use PayPal. Pretty simple. If you want a transaction with no fees, send a check.


Where are you getting there is no fee on the gift transaction? The buyer pays. If that's the agreement, that's the agreement.
User avatar
KVRian
 
1116 posts since 9 Dec, 2011

Postby billcarroll; Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:42 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

frankz00 wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
oxygenmask wrote:Before we all oooooh and ahhhhhh at the wonder that is Paypal, let's keep in mind that that it is a corrupt service with customer service issues that would put any business to shame. Let's try to keep how wonderful Paypal is and all it's miracles and blessings in perspective here people. Read a few articles before defending it to the end.


Then don't use PayPal. Pretty simple. If you want a transaction with no fees, send a check.


Where are you getting there is no fee on the gift transaction? The buyer pays. If that's the agreement, that's the agreement.


Code: Select all
Sending money: Fees

It's free to send money in the U.S. to friends and family when you use your PayPal balance or bank account. Fees apply when you use a debit or credit card, or the payment is international. In most cases, the sender decides who pays these fees.
Receiving money: Fees

Receiving personal payments from friends or family in the U.S. is free when they send the money using only their PayPal balance or their bank account, or a combination of their PayPal balance and bank account. An example of a personal payment would be receiving $20 from a family member as a birthday gift.


https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpc ... S_US&m=TCI
User avatar
KVRian
 
1116 posts since 9 Dec, 2011

Postby billcarroll; Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:43 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

ATS wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
ATS wrote:Are you all part owners in paypal or something? Why the hell do you care what OTHER people do so much? If someone wants to pay me with a gift I am certaintly not going to say no. I don't make people do it but a lot do. If you don't like it blow me. :wink:


Whatever else might happen, I'm almost certain this cunning strategy is not gonna get you blown.




:lol: haha nice one


Glad we could find some humor in this delightful thread :)
KVRist
 
290 posts since 22 Dec, 2009

Postby frankz00; Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:29 pm Re: Cautionary Tale about scams….Paypal comes thru!

billcarroll wrote:
frankz00 wrote:Where are you getting there is no fee on the gift transaction? The buyer pays. If that's the agreement, that's the agreement.


Code: Select all
Sending money: Fees

It's free to send money in the U.S. to friends and family when you use your PayPal balance or bank account. Fees apply when you use a debit or credit card, or the payment is international. In most cases, the sender decides who pays these fees.
Receiving money: Fees

Receiving personal payments from friends or family in the U.S. is free when they send the money using only their PayPal balance or their bank account, or a combination of their PayPal balance and bank account. An example of a personal payment would be receiving $20 from a family member as a birthday gift.


https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpc ... S_US&m=TCI


Well apparently I've been doing it all wrong because I've paid every time LOL!
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