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What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

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User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
3935 posts since 24 May, 2009, from south park....DUH !!!

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:41 am Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

TheoM wrote:I will NEVER name and shame and go that route. Not going to happen, not interested in it happening. As i have said 1000 times before here, i don't like getting personal at KVR. This is the MP and the point of the topic was to talk about how people feel about re negs in general and if there should be a neg feedback forum (which personally I don't want, i just wanted to see other's opinions), it's all on topic, it has nothing to do about attention or a whine or whatever you may think. You can go on believing that if you like, that's your prerogative.

As far as the fees, THIS is how i said it " I can offer you a deal with a deposit and give you till January to pay as i understand it's a lot of money. I would ask in return you pay the shipping and 15 euro transfer fee which will be a total cost of not more than $50 USD extra for you"

with reply "that sounds fair, how does 500 down sound, 500 in sept, 500 in october"

etc etc....

Like i said he had no desire to work things out... If he came and said, PP gift will be too hard as i am using my CC and fees are too high, I would have met him half way without a second thought (PP fees are very very low if using bank or balance.. it's only the CC that kills it).. ALl i got was i am backing out of the deal as i decided it's too much money. That's it. No attempt at any contact, no real apology...


the guy should have apologised. were it me, i would have done so, and been hugely embarrassed. but i would not have gone through with the deal if i changes my mind, especially given the huge amount involved.

being honest, theo, do you really think that he should be forced to do buy it ?? once you dispense with your own grief at the mistake you made (spending money before it arrived), are you really saying that he should be expected to honour a deal of over 1500 euros, even though he clearly decided against it ?? i am not saying your time spent on emails, and your flexibility to accommodate him (which would also benefit you in the end, given how huge a product it is to shift in the manner you are trying to), was worth nothing. however, are you really saying that you were so inconvenienced by this whole thing that he should pay ??

TheoM wrote:I will NEVER name and shame and go that route. Not going to happen, not interested in it happening. As i have said 1000 times before here, i don't like getting personal at KVR


except at the end you asked

TheoM wrote:or do you think i SHOULD name and shame so to speak.. or just let it go?


as for not getting personal ?? well, you have dragged people through the dirt all over these forums, on a few notable occasions.

TheoM wrote:i just wanted to see other's opinions


except you took exception to my opinion and felt quite justified getting personal, questioning my morals, my integrity, and announcing how i was the kind of person you would never do business with. that was a personal attack, and i took the liberty of responding in kind

TheoM wrote:it's all on topic, it has nothing to do about attention or a whine or whatever you may think. You can go on believing that if you like, that's your prerogative.


and my initial reply was on topic. i accused you of whining in response to you insinuations regarding me. but the truth is that you were whining about being out of pocket. not that i don't sympathise, but it has no relevance to this thread, other than to garner pity from people and to add a much more weighty emotional response to your complaint i.e how much of an arsehole this guy must have been to have put you in such a position

you, of all people, should know that the marketplace is something to be careful with. i imagine that you are quite well aware of how much of an 'ask' it is for someone to go from not owning a program, to coughing up for it plus all the expansions, and that is why you went to great lengths to bend to accommodate them. it was also in your interests to do so. it looks like you were so desperate to get rid of it, that you were prepared to take risks with follow-up payments etc. i think you to be very benevolent, so i am not making you out to be devious in any way at all, but maybe don't make yourself out a martyr either

truth is, had you not spent the money before it was signed and sealed this thread would likely not exist. you would have been, rightfully, a little pissed, but would have just got on with it

as for negative feedback threads ?? i think you know that those are open to abuse, and most times unlikely to be representative of anything worthy of noting. for some perspective, were i to know this guy's name, i think there is nothing in your complaint that would put me off dealing with him in future :shrug:
User avatar
Numanoid
KVRAF
 
7766 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from Down on the farm

Postby Numanoid; Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:50 am Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

TheoM wrote:MY FAULT, i KNOW, for spending money I didn't yet have, but that is the stupid thing about me

+1 Be more catious
Aubrey Lamont
KVRist
 
334 posts since 28 Feb, 2013

Postby Aubrey Lamont; Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:37 pm Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

If a party accepts the offer of another party, a binding agreement has been made. At this point, reneging by either side is unethical.

At least that's how American law (generally) views it, and I tend to agree.
TheoM
KVRAF
 
18925 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:05 pm Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
TheoM wrote:I will NEVER name and shame and go that route. Not going to happen, not interested in it happening. As i have said 1000 times before here, i don't like getting personal at KVR. This is the MP and the point of the topic was to talk about how people feel about re negs in general and if there should be a neg feedback forum (which personally I don't want, i just wanted to see other's opinions), it's all on topic, it has nothing to do about attention or a whine or whatever you may think. You can go on believing that if you like, that's your prerogative.

As far as the fees, THIS is how i said it " I can offer you a deal with a deposit and give you till January to pay as i understand it's a lot of money. I would ask in return you pay the shipping and 15 euro transfer fee which will be a total cost of not more than $50 USD extra for you"

with reply "that sounds fair, how does 500 down sound, 500 in sept, 500 in october"

etc etc....

Like i said he had no desire to work things out... If he came and said, PP gift will be too hard as i am using my CC and fees are too high, I would have met him half way without a second thought (PP fees are very very low if using bank or balance.. it's only the CC that kills it).. ALl i got was i am backing out of the deal as i decided it's too much money. That's it. No attempt at any contact, no real apology...


the guy should have apologised. were it me, i would have done so, and been hugely embarrassed. but i would not have gone through with the deal if i changes my mind, especially given the huge amount involved.

being honest, theo, do you really think that he should be forced to do buy it ?? once you dispense with your own grief at the mistake you made (spending money before it arrived), are you really saying that he should be expected to honour a deal of over 1500 euros, even though he clearly decided against it ?? i am not saying your time spent on emails, and your flexibility to accommodate him (which would also benefit you in the end, given how huge a product it is to shift in the manner you are trying to), was worth nothing. however, are you really saying that you were so inconvenienced by this whole thing that he should pay ??

TheoM wrote:I will NEVER name and shame and go that route. Not going to happen, not interested in it happening. As i have said 1000 times before here, i don't like getting personal at KVR


except at the end you asked

TheoM wrote:or do you think i SHOULD name and shame so to speak.. or just let it go?


as for not getting personal ?? well, you have dragged people through the dirt all over these forums, on a few notable occasions.

TheoM wrote:i just wanted to see other's opinions


except you took exception to my opinion and felt quite justified getting personal, questioning my morals, my integrity, and announcing how i was the kind of person you would never do business with. that was a personal attack, and i took the liberty of responding in kind

TheoM wrote:it's all on topic, it has nothing to do about attention or a whine or whatever you may think. You can go on believing that if you like, that's your prerogative.


and my initial reply was on topic. i accused you of whining in response to you insinuations regarding me. but the truth is that you were whining about being out of pocket. not that i don't sympathise, but it has no relevance to this thread, other than to garner pity from people and to add a much more weighty emotional response to your complaint i.e how much of an arsehole this guy must have been to have put you in such a position

you, of all people, should know that the marketplace is something to be careful with. i imagine that you are quite well aware of how much of an 'ask' it is for someone to go from not owning a program, to coughing up for it plus all the expansions, and that is why you went to great lengths to bend to accommodate them. it was also in your interests to do so. it looks like you were so desperate to get rid of it, that you were prepared to take risks with follow-up payments etc. i think you to be very benevolent, so i am not making you out to be devious in any way at all, but maybe don't make yourself out a martyr either

truth is, had you not spent the money before it was signed and sealed this thread would likely not exist. you would have been, rightfully, a little pissed, but would have just got on with it

as for negative feedback threads ?? i think you know that those are open to abuse, and most times unlikely to be representative of anything worthy of noting. for some perspective, were i to know this guy's name, i think there is nothing in your complaint that would put me off dealing with him in future :shrug:



All I can say is that everything you posted above is fair and correct, and I have never, nor do have any issue with you and I apologise if it came across otherwise in my frustrated post. Honestly I really don't have a problem with you.

Just to say it was $1500 USD not euros, $1550 including transfer, dongle and ship.. so around 1100 euros ish (just doing quick math in my head).

Re the name and shame, yes it was a question, do you think I should, but i didn't have the actual intention to. Basically i was trying to suss out how people feel about this stuff in general. But of course I can recognize the contradiction you have pointed out, although it was unintentional. My apologies.

As far as the blacklisting from future purchases, as i said everyone gets a chance, but I can't trust him again so no matter what it is, I don't want his business. So how that relates to your question, on whether i would ant him to still pay and go through with it knowing everything that has happened. Well, i'd accept it as a deal is a deal, yes I would still take the money if it was all up front, but I absolutely would not trust to do the three part thing now at all. And i'd still never sell anything to him again after that, ever. I am VERY fair and ridiculously honest (you know, someone told me some time back, for real, he said "you are crazy, you are TOO honest), but once someone is dishonest with me and gets me all hyped up only to knock me down, I don't give that trust again.

A very similar thing happened to me with a seller a while back who decided i could no longer have the products, after money was exchanged, as i needed a download link as they had expired, and he decided to refund me and refuse me the products. And I got very little support here over it and I get very frustrated because I can't help thinking some people just absolutely detest me and actually wish me harm. I still haven't gotten over the fury of that incident 6 months later and how I did nothing wrong, i was a paying customer, and 90% of replies were of pure hatred towards me here. I even saw a shrink about it because i just absolutely had to know if i was going mental and perhaps imagining things or somehow ignoring my own mistakes, and thankfully he read everything (including the pvt emails) and assured me in this case it wasn't my fault and i was well within my rights (besides of course over reacting a bit). So I am convinced a certain amount of KVR just has it out for me on a personal level, I really am.You are not one of those people.

Thanks at least in general to everyone in THIS topic for being reasonable so far. Cheers
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
TheoM
KVRAF
 
18925 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:14 pm Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

Aubrey Lamont wrote:If a party accepts the offer of another party, a binding agreement has been made. At this point, reneging by either side is unethical.

At least that's how American law (generally) views it, and I tend to agree.


I did save everything but I would never bother doing anything about it. We honestly had no bad talk, it was just days of planning and promises (i got the money is coming more than one time in more than one message) and then nada. Yes I am not impressed but what's done is done now.
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
Kriminal
KVRAF
 
18333 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from England

Postby Kriminal; Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:30 pm Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

You jumped the gun, he changed his mind.

Shit happens.
GreyLion
KVRAF
 
2595 posts since 21 May, 2004, from Deep in the Heart of Texas

Postby GreyLion; Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:04 pm Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

Theo -- You and I have had our... issues... over the years, but I do wish you the best going forward. Not being able to make music anymore is likely a crushing thing.

But -- Any deal that involves multiple large payments with a stranger, over the net, is one to not even consider.

The deal isn't sealed until money is exchanged and the participants walk away from each other. Either party can stop at any time. Expecting any other paradigm is just asking for heartbreak.

You do have a history here of really hanging on to negative feelings far longer than most, and have had conflicted interactions more often than most. I think it's probably a neurochemistry thing and a learned reaction to stress, but I'm not your doc. You may want to explore Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, as it's designed for just this sort of issue. This isn't me taking a dig at you. We all have things in our life that we can benefit from working on. I have mine, too.

In any case, when doing deals regularly, the very best thing you can do when one goes sour is to hit the reset button and make the next deal. This one's dead, and can't be resuscitated, so why lavish so much affection on it?

Negging somebody, especially when it's strictly a private interaction, always reveals more about you than them.

Good luck!
jsljustin
KVRer
 
19 posts since 21 Apr, 2012, from n/a

Postby jsljustin; Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:55 am Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

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Last edited by jsljustin on Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
valerian_777
KVRist
 
358 posts since 24 Jun, 2014, from Giza Plateau

Postby valerian_777; Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:11 pm Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

A friend of mine told me once that people who actually asking a question and then another and so on that those people at the end buy nothing 99% of the time because they changed their mind.

Don't know if this is a psychological thing.

I must say a few years later i fully understand what he'd said to me. Best is to put it on an auction platform and the people who really interested will bet immediatly.
║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█
Orbit-50
KVRian
 
983 posts since 28 Jun, 2005, from La La Land

Postby Orbit-50; Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:17 pm Re: What's the MP etiquette regarding people re negging on deals?

valerian_777 wrote:A friend of mine told me once that people who actually asking a question and then another and so on that those people at the end buy nothing 99% of the time because they changed their mind.

Your friend is 100% right.They just ask a bunch of stupid questions and that's it. I don't have payroll or time to waste on people like that. The ones that buy the most are the ones who come in, dig in and start shopping, ask for minimal customer service, pay, then leave. Simple.


.-.
Intel Core i7, Cubase 7.5, Ableton Live 9+Push, FL Studio 11, Wavelab 8.5, Halion 5, NI Komplete 9, Waves, Nexus 2, All VPS, Spire, Sylenth1, FXpansion, Alchemy, Waldorf Largo, Synthmaster, Ohm Force, GForce, D16 Group, ArtsAcoustic, FabFilter and more..
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