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The Kontakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)

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bigcat1969
KVRian
 
543 posts since 30 Jul, 2013

Postby bigcat1969; Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:56 pm The Kontakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

After taking a bit of a break after that crazy 40 stop organ / almost synth, I'm back to messing about with other things that strike my fancy. So here we go converting Sarcyan's cool Soundfont over to Kontakt. Today's post is brought to you by the letter's 'A' and 'B' since that's how far I've gotten in the conversion. While certainly these are old school sounds that aren't going to make East/West or Native Instruments jealous, I think the are fun and worth playing about with. Testing and feedback would be appreciated.

http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2 ... ntakt.html
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Sarcyan
KVRist
 
79 posts since 11 Jun, 2012

Postby Sarcyan; Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:43 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

bigcat1969 wrote:After taking a bit of a break after that crazy 40 stop organ / almost synth, I'm back to messing about with other things that strike my fancy. So here we go converting Sarcyan's cool Soundfont over to Kontakt. Today's post is brought to you by the letter's 'A' and 'B' since that's how far I've gotten in the conversion. While certainly these are old school sounds that aren't going to make East/West or Native Instruments jealous, I think the are fun and worth playing about with. Testing and feedback would be appreciated.

http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2 ... ntakt.html

Many many thanks for this, bigcat1969! I listened to that medley for piano and you featured one of my favourite instruments of the soundfont there. The Acoustic Grand Piano, a Fazioli for anyone interested, sounds pretty rich despite its relatively small size.

Besides which, I kiiiiiiinda like certain good ol' sounds, but well, current libraries or modern hardware are tough to match (especially the hardware) and in fact I think they can't be matched, from personal experience with both. As you say, the sounds in the soundfonts are fun and cool to use, and get the job done for most songs.

In the end, it's all about the fun, usefulness and the variety. I like perfection but achieving it is so difficult as nothing seems to really follow just a rule, and people have so varied tastes.... Just because a physicist says that matter cannot be created or destroyed doesn't mean it's true. We just haven't found out how it's done, yet. xP Anyhoo.... so yeah, this happens with many other things.

Personally I tend to prefer memorable MIDI'd sounds to superbly arranged orchestral sounds when it comes to instrumental sounds, especially if you have a good sound library -soundfont, Kontact instrument, etc- or great hardware to play them, they will sound very fine on those. Of course, a live orchestra can send shivers down your spine, but that's besides the point.

I hope the conversion is easy to achieve in the end. I have no experience with Kontact. Can you create a sound library (a la soundfont) from individual melodic presets in Kontact?

Once again, I am very grateful for this. Take care of you. See you bigcat1969
bigcat1969
KVRian
 
543 posts since 30 Jul, 2013

Postby bigcat1969; Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:06 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Hey Sarcyan. I do like the sound of that piano as well. Its a nice change of pace from the standard Steinways and Yamahas. As you say, its all about fun for me. Hopefully that came through with the interface, glad you more of less liked it. Also the variety is nice, you included lots of sound effects and obscure instruments that came be tough to find especially in the free realm.

The conversion isn't difficult, I just need to keep plugging away. I basically used the A Pad instrument I created earlier to make a template with the EQ, Reverb and Envelope controls already there and drop in the groups.

You can't really create a sound library in the same sense as a soundfont, but when I get done I think I'll try to organize them by the general midi categories, piano, organ, guitar, strings, etc...

I did a thread about free midi sounds a while back, viewtopic.php?f=42&t=408239, and this will really help me expand on it, especially in the sound effects, synth and percussive areas.
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Sarcyan
KVRist
 
79 posts since 11 Jun, 2012

Postby Sarcyan; Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:20 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

bigcat1969 wrote:Hey Sarcyan. I do like the sound of that piano as well. Its a nice change of pace from the standard Steinways and Yamahas. As you say, its all about fun for me. Hopefully that came through with the interface, glad you more of less liked it. Also the variety is nice, you included lots of sound effects and obscure instruments that came be tough to find especially in the free realm.

The conversion isn't difficult, I just need to keep plugging away. I basically used the A Pad instrument I created earlier to make a template with the EQ, Reverb and Envelope controls already there and drop in the groups.

You can't really create a sound library in the same sense as a soundfont, but when I get done I think I'll try to organize them by the general midi categories, piano, organ, guitar, strings, etc...

I did a thread about free midi sounds a while back, viewtopic.php?f=42&t=408239, and this will really help me expand on it, especially in the sound effects, synth and percussive areas.
I read that thread and I kids you not when I tell you that maybe, just maybe, you might like the Fiddle sound in Musyng Kite. Still not sure, of course, but it is another one of my favourites. The Bagpipe isn't bad either, and in fact it is one of the most difficult instruments to tune up //it's based on the best Bagpipe I've ever found on a soundfont, the Bagpipe of the former commercial soundfont SoniVOX 250GM (now discontinued(, with tweaks, a soundfont which other than that I feel repent to buy back in the day at that price, as only the Bagpipe and some few spare sounds are truly worth it, imho.

Strangely, even great hardware synths can have a little trouble with Bagpipes, in order for them to sound perfect, and I am from a region with celtic roots and bagpipes here (the little village where I live is filled with statues of bagpipers) are present on a daily basis, and even dedicated MIDI bagpipes sound really bad to me. But maybe, that's just me. I even created a Youtube video featuring a MIDI Bagpipe and it sounded okay to me so I wanted to show to the world.

As for the unconventional sounds on the soundfont, I didn't want it so sound very generic in all areas, so there are some peculiar drum sounds and a few touches here and there where it sounds similar to the original instruments, but with a little twist, like the Ice Rain and the Warm Strings, etc.

You are so passionate about music and MIDI and stuff, bigcat1969, it's kinda admirable. Honestly, I hope you never change that, there are very few people so focused and passionate about something. You remind me of myself.

It wouldn't be an impossibility to help you out with your GM project, but trust me that I can't keep up, I have had enough for a long time. Plus priorities of life kick in...

Cheers Joe :)
bigcat1969
KVRian
 
543 posts since 30 Jul, 2013

Postby bigcat1969; Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:33 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Thanks for the kind words, Sarcyan. By making your soundfont with all the hard work that that must have entailed, giving it to the public and letting me convert it, you have helped my projects immensely. There are lots of cool sounds that you've collected and made very easy for me to convert that would have taken me months to track down from different PD sources. Plus even though I generally do more than a simple conversion, Kontakt is brilliant at doing most of the work for me retaining much of your layering and envelopes and such, so its much easier than making instruments from scratch using wave files.

Here is a little bagpipe midi. It's not really velocity sensitive so I'll try to find a better demo.
Deleted non-good demo.
Last edited by bigcat1969 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sarcyan
KVRist
 
79 posts since 11 Jun, 2012

Postby Sarcyan; Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:58 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

bigcat1969 wrote:Thanks for the kind words, Sarcyan. By making your soundfont with all the hard work that that must have entailed, giving it to the public and letting me convert it, you have helped my projects immensely. There are lots of cool sounds that you've collected and made very easy for me to convert that would have taken me months to track down from different PD sources. Plus even though I generally do more than a simple conversion, Kontakt is brilliant at doing most of the work for me retaining much of your layering and envelopes and such, so its much easier than making instruments from scratch using wave files.

Here is a little bagpipe midi. It's not really velocity sensitive so I'll try to find a better demo.
https://soundcloud.com/bigcat1969/amazi ... e-bagpipes
OMG, the notes sound purely on the lower side of the spectrum, on the drone so to speak, not on the chanter, so there is no Bagpipe presence there, which means that it doesn't sound fine. Some of the notes should be sounding on the drone, basically the sustain, but the rest need to be moved up a few octaves, playing the chanter notes.

This is a file I edited for that song on Sonar, where you have the drone sound in the background and then the chanter sounding correctly too, plus some orchestral sounds.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803 ... ceCose.mid
bigcat1969
KVRian
 
543 posts since 30 Jul, 2013

Postby bigcat1969; Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:13 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Wow my computer just blue screened for the first time in forever on IRQ settings. Weird.
Thanks I'll redo that based on your midi. You would be amazed the things I don't know especially about bagpipes!
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bigcat1969
KVRian
 
543 posts since 30 Jul, 2013

Postby bigcat1969; Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:29 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Is this right? There seem to be some little 'chirps'. I'm not sure if that is intended or not?

https://soundcloud.com/bigcat1969/amazi ... e-bagpipes

https://soundcloud.com/bigcat1969/amazi ... bagpipes-2
Transposed up an octave or tow on the original one I posted

https://soundcloud.com/bigcat1969/croppy
Piano, Fiddle and more
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Sarcyan
KVRist
 
79 posts since 11 Jun, 2012

Postby Sarcyan; Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:56 pm Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

bigcat1969 wrote:Is this right? There seem to be some little 'chirps'. I'm not sure if that is intended or not?

https://soundcloud.com/bigcat1969/amazi ... e-bagpipes

https://soundcloud.com/bigcat1969/amazi ... bagpipes-2
Transposed up an octave or tow on the original one I posted

https://soundcloud.com/bigcat1969/croppy
Piano, Fiddle and more

Yes, the chirping is quite normal. I've had a few friends two weeks ago playing the Bagpipes here and the chirping is part of Bagpipes.

Excessive chirping is not good though, and it can be due to either poor fingerwork or a weak reed, but it is one of those unique things about the sound of bagpipes.

This is the live sound of a bagpipe playing that song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qjCEi0PB4M

I'd say that the first one is more accurate than the second one, which doesn't sound as fine. Still, it also might depend on potential changes caused by porting the sound to Kontact, but by the looks of it and having listened to all the songs you shared, the port is basically "sample perfect".

Thanks for the bonus 3rd song too, the one with the fiddles and piano, Joe.
bigcat1969
KVRian
 
543 posts since 30 Jul, 2013

Postby bigcat1969; Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:07 pm Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Thanks for the feedback the info on bagpipes and the cool video. One reason I enjoy messing about with instruments is learning and experiencing new things. I discovered I messed up certain envelopes in the conversion, so I'm going back and correcting that. I just re-uploaded 'A', so I'll stall for a bit on new stuff while I fix what I already did.
You were right, I do like your fiddles and of course that nice piano.
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Sarcyan
KVRist
 
79 posts since 11 Jun, 2012

Postby Sarcyan; Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:21 am Re: The Konakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

bigcat1969 wrote:Thanks for the feedback the info on bagpipes and the cool video. One reason I enjoy messing about with instruments is learning and experiencing new things. I discovered I messed up certain envelopes in the conversion, so I'm going back and correcting that. I just re-uploaded 'A', so I'll stall for a bit on new stuff while I fix what I already did.
You were right, I do like your fiddles and of course that nice piano.
That seems exactly to be the case for me, and that's why I love hardware synths or software, 'cos you can get sounds that are very cool and interesting, compared to the real thing. For instance, I have a knack for Roland's guitars in their synths.

Experiencing is something I recommend, if you manage not to feel overwhelmed, which happened to me sometimes, when using several soundfonts, soft synths, compare results, finding what sounded best, etc etc. Now it just evolved into using my favourite hardware module and playing songs there, while sometimes I use soundfonts or soft synths, too. By doing so, I am getting rid of that personal feeling I had that haunted me with every song, always experimenting with songs, VSTs, DXi instruments, and never ever being fully happy with anything. Still, when it worked, the results were awesome, and experimentation is necessary 'cos if you become a one trick pony then you will be predictable and won't learn further.

If you find a great setup and you are comfortable with it, then... well, all righty. It's not terrible, but I always feel that sometimes flipping the switch can be good if you know what you are doing, for one thing.

Additionally, on a different note, your conversion is sample perfect as I said, but yes, your soundcloud demos show there might be some personal experimentation of yours going on, 'cos the sound is familiar but not 100% the same. I'd encourage you to keep doing that, whatever the result. Then if you have a MIDI player which can play soundfonts like Spider Player or XMPlay you can compare the same song between Kontact 5 and one of those MIDI players, thus you can check what modifications are truly worth it for you. I am not going to modify the soundfont ever in my life --still, I'd recommend you to decrease the attenuation of the violin (if there is an equivalent parameter on Kontact, as I was editing it but for some reason I left the tweaking halfway, and the violin is just a bit attenuated). :hyper: :scared: :ud:

Take care of you Joe, and thanks again for this. :phones: :borg: :tu: 8)
bigcat1969
KVRian
 
543 posts since 30 Jul, 2013

Postby bigcat1969; Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:04 am Re: The Kontakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Well fixed my errors, I hope, on the instruments I'd previously done so they sound closer to the original intent. Now on the the Letter 'F' also I like Cookies!
I'm still getting over thinking that the sound coming out of the computer must sound exactly like the sound coming out of the acoustic instrument. I'm starting to discover the fun of what can be created, mutated or mutilated from those sounds.
Good idea on listening to the soundfonts. I tend to jump into things feet first sometimes instead of taking my time and doing enough research. If I understand you right, Decay and Sustain together take care of Attenuation in Kontakt. So I messed a bit with those in the Fiddle.
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timobrien
KVRian
 
1053 posts since 19 Feb, 2003

Postby timobrien; Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:31 am Re: The Kontakt 5 Musyng Kite Soundfont project

Thanks for these!

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