KVR Audio

steffeeH · Post by **steffeeH** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:28 pm

Hi,
I stumbled upon this interview with deadmau5, and eventually I read this section (marked with an arrow) where I can't understand what he refers to or mean?
First I scrolled back up a bit to hopefully have missed something and go "ahaa!", but nope, it feels like this just came out of nowhere. Kind of confused.
Any point-outs what this is about?

Interviewer:
It sounds like the rhythmic elements are what take you the most time to consolidate. Why produce and grid out all these one shots?

Joel:
A lot of times, the more parts you can have, the better, because you can re-introduce or swing different parts without f**king up entire loops.
--> It’s got a lot to do with the placement and timing of that kick. Even though it’s dance music and it’s not f**king rocket science to place one on every quarter note, it doesn’t hurt to nudge it backward a millisecond because that’s going to trigger a key sooner and give a little bit of time for the plug-in to process after the transient or during the transient. Because if you do everything from zero onward, you’re going to run into latency problems. And I’m talking changes in the microsecond range, not so much making a loop that’s way off. You’d be surprised what you can do by making micro adjustments to the placement of a kick, especially when it’s being used as a key for a compressor. If you bring it back just a little bit early, then you can hear a transient much better before the compressor just destroys it, squashes it down by 1:8 or 1:10.

If you're curious about the interview itself, here's the link:
http://www.emusician.com/artists/1333/deadmau5/45266

VariKusBrainZ · Post by **VariKusBrainZ** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:38 pm

He's referring to the kick being used as a side chain to other processors like gates and compressors. He's implying the latency on those plugs will make them trigger late so he brings the kicks forwards.

This also helps the kicks cut through with other sounds like bass that are triggered at the same time so their initial transients don't clash and lose impact

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:45 pm

Latency seems to be the new devil in modern music production. I doubt that average songs sound better without any latency... Placing kicks isn't rocket science. But creativity is...

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:58 pm

Most certainly each of these plugins have some onset (attack) time, but you should be able to adjust them without moving sounds on a piano roll.

By the way, I recently engineered special kick with exceptional dynamic range just to feed sidechain with it. This way I am free to do with the actual audible kick whatever I please and still keep decent sidechain envelope intact.

steffeeH · Post by **steffeeH** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:14 pm

Alright, I've read a little further about this, and I understand it now.
It was a lot simpler than I thought at first, it sounded way more complicated the way he described it.

This brings up a little question out of curiosity.
Whenever I sidechain my trigger (or ghost kick) to a sound, it's right on time (meaning I do have that short bleed of sound coming through the sidechain since the compressor is still reacting and haven't reached the destined gain reduction), and I prefer to actually increase the attacktime on the compressor to make a short transient of the sound that will duck that hits excactly the same time as the kick... sometimes up to +50 ms.
This is because I think it hits much harder then. I don't always do this of course, sometimes I want zero attacktime, but it still happens.
Though this must the opposite to what Joel suggests, any thoughts about this?

DJ Warmonger: Nice! I've done something similar a long time ago.
I created a supershort bleep of infrasound that was completely inaudible, and used that as a sidechain trigger.
Why was it infrasound? Because at that time I was still a noob when it came to the mixer and didn't know how to simply route the sound away from the master, and I didn't want any ghost triggerer that was audible.
I still use it though haha, since I know it in and out, but now it's of course routed away from the master.

GFunk · Post by **GFunk** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:42 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:By the way, I recently engineered special kick with exceptional dynamic range just to feed sidechain with it.

I've heard this is quite common with a lot of pro producers. So much so that some will even use a hat as the trigger coz the decay of the kicks are too long.

steffeeH · Post by **steffeeH** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:19 am

Any thoughts regarding my second piece of text? (about my procedure)

e@rs · Post by **e@rs** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:44 am

Can't understand this fascination people have for Joel Zimmerman (deadmau5) - Help please!

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:29 am

e@rs wrote:Can't understand this fascination people have for Joel Zimmerman (deadmau5) - Help please!

he's got a funny hat.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:08 am

I know about this trick for more loudness impact but this transient thingy is of course also true (I heard the first time from Infected Mushroom about this).

GFunk · Post by **GFunk** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:04 pm

steffeeH wrote:Any thoughts regarding my second piece of text? (about my procedure)

Your technique is fine mate, if thats what you wants to achieve.
It's the same with the ghost kick: If you rush it then this will accentuate the kick more, but if you relax it, then this will accentuate the rest of the drums.

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:29 pm

e@rs wrote:Can't understand this fascination people have for Joel Zimmerman (deadmau5) - Help please!

I don't have a fascination with him or even his music by any means, but I have a ton respect for his abilities, his work ethic, and his attitude. He's a self-made man, he plays by his own rules, his production skills and his attention to detail are impeccable, and yet he stills seems to be a very cool and down to Earth guy. He still pops in on forums (including KVR, Tranceaddict, etc.) on occasion and tries to be helpful. I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if he responds to this thread at some point.

e@rs · Post by **e@rs** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:55 am

cryophonik wrote:He's a self-made man, he plays by his own rules, his production skills and his attention to detail are impeccable, and yet he stills seems to be a very cool and down to Earth guy.

Really? I haven't noticed any of that. And I looked/listened more than one time. I think he would be lost without Duda, 90% of his tracks are garbage and he's an arrogant moron with a stupid mask. Not a single grain of respect from me.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:43 am

e@rs wrote:I think he would be lost without Duda, 90% of his tracks are garbage and he's an arrogant moron with a stupid mask. Not a single grain of respect from me.

You should not judge an artist because of his mask or custom. Don't forget that this is to entertain the people and all is a part of the show. And we are not the music police? I don't think he is an unsuccessful artist so it seems he does the right things.
I don't know about one successful artist without a lot of supporting people. I don't know if Steve Duda is his main supporter I only know that Zimmerman collaborated with him and he developed Afaik some plug-ins (Xfer).
Anyway, without other people helping you/support you, you have completely no chance in the business. This is and was never a one man show.

e@rs · Post by **e@rs** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:14 pm

I really don't care much about his mask, that's not the point. Daft Punk had masks since the 'Discovery' era. Destroid wear masks too. But they make great music and I understand their popularity. But with this guy I really don't get it. Boring sounds, stabs and white noise. And when you read an interview with him, you'd think he's doing the best electronic music ever. What a joke! And the fact that he has huge Genelec or PMC speakers and tons of modular synths doesn't impress me either.

And there were at least two times he acted like a dick: one when he insulted Madonna and the other when he was rude to a guy watching some live stream from his studio that complained about the lack of bass, saying something like 'f*** off, I got tons of bass here and I know better'.

Can't understand this quote from Joel Zimmerman (deadmau5) - Help please.