Also, I wonder why Korg used the Atom processor, and not something different. I would expect that Korg has a big selection of engineers that had to do the right choice, and I wonder why the Atom... One thing I love about Shark DSP is zero-latency, as the whole thing goes into a stream. It works in a different way, so I wonder how Korg Kronos handles latency, how many buffers and the size.
Open Source DSP based hardware synth
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- Banned
- 5089 posts since 12 Jun, 2001 from Wusik Dot Com
A few things, I didn't watch the whole video, but do you know the specs of the synth? Voices, filters, effects? Just curious. Also, I wonder why Korg used the Atom processor, and not something different. I would expect that Korg has a big selection of engineers that had to do the right choice, and I wonder why the Atom... One thing I love about Shark DSP is zero-latency, as the whole thing goes into a stream. It works in a different way, so I wonder how Korg Kronos handles latency, how many buffers and the size.
Also, I wonder why Korg used the Atom processor, and not something different. I would expect that Korg has a big selection of engineers that had to do the right choice, and I wonder why the Atom... One thing I love about Shark DSP is zero-latency, as the whole thing goes into a stream. It works in a different way, so I wonder how Korg Kronos handles latency, how many buffers and the size.-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 9 Jul, 2009
Actually hands down you are the absolute boss. Thank you so damn much. £63: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte ... ata-ii-3gbwhyterabbyt wrote:Problem is, there is no 'best'. ...b&t wrote:Any chance anyone wants to stay on topic? Ignore the last three pages and actually find the best possible solution?
I cant quite see any significant advantage in the route you appear to prefer, except as a manifestation of doing it that way for its own sake. I think to achieve the ends you're talking about, you're far better off with the generic 'native' PC platform, even as a standalone system; it can be as cheap, its plenty fast, its far easier to develop for, and it'll also actually be possible to replace with a compatible faster version two or three years down the line.
You just made me so happy happy! Swear they've even got dev written subtly (or not so) in the title, D3V mini!! Brilliant, that is cheaper than those boards and just about ever damn thing you mentioned just really makes sense, standard I/O's and preexisting toolkits etc. FLIP you could run max or whatever. Best route thank you soooo much.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 9 Jul, 2009
No I looked at the source, it's just fluid synth, so it means it's soundfont, so I'm not sure it could get away with being called a synth on here!WilliamK wrote:A few things, I didn't watch the whole video, but do you know the specs of the synth? Voices, filters, effects? Just curious.
Just £63 D3V mini! Compared to the £90 parallella!
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- Banned
- 5089 posts since 12 Jun, 2001 from Wusik Dot Com
Yeah, but it is a Celeron... 
- "And your point is..." - Well, it's a Celeron...
I'm old, so I don't know how things are today with Celerons, but from my old days, they were total craps in terms of fast math, but heck, please, do correct me if I'm wrong about this board, and I apologize in advance...
In any event, bare-metal code is still the fastest way to handle things, but in some boards it is nearly impossible to do. But I will shut-up now...
- "And your point is..." - Well, it's a Celeron...I'm old, so I don't know how things are today with Celerons, but from my old days, they were total craps in terms of fast math, but heck, please, do correct me if I'm wrong about this board, and I apologize in advance...
In any event, bare-metal code is still the fastest way to handle things, but in some boards it is nearly impossible to do. But I will shut-up now...
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- KVRian
- 740 posts since 14 Apr, 2004 from Rome
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- Banned
- 5089 posts since 12 Jun, 2001 from Wusik Dot Com
Oh, good one, thanks. I forgot about that one.raikard233 wrote:Anyone remember Hartmann Neuron hw specs?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmann_Neuron
I'm impressed to see the specs. But from what I remember users reported that it crashed too often. I wonder, was the software or the hardware faulty?-
- KVRian
- 740 posts since 14 Apr, 2004 from Rome
Don't remember right now, I think more about a combo of them.
Sure a surf through old forums and mailing lists will give us more infos about these bugs.
In the last year were a bit of movement around the native au/vst version updated by Stephan Bernsee.
Hardware went, software still
Sure a surf through old forums and mailing lists will give us more infos about these bugs.
In the last year were a bit of movement around the native au/vst version updated by Stephan Bernsee.
Hardware went, software still
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- Banned
- 5089 posts since 12 Jun, 2001 from Wusik Dot Com
Indeed. Just curious. I wonder why companies like the UAD guys and also Scope (XITE) still use Shark DSP processors, compared to just going into full Intel based solutions. I know you guys posted some history behind the UAD, but still wonder, from today tech, why they still avoid intel. Maybe is something else that we don't know about? Or I'm just mumbling things right now... one thing I know, Video Game Consoles have to pick a video-chip at some point, and work with it, while PC video-cards improve, they stay the same. The main reason is cost. But if we had something like a Kyma or XITE device that would use generic Intel processors, it could be upgraded, but them again, Intel chips chance very often, which could be problematic. While Shark DSP chips are mostly the same for a long time, with only minor updates... I don't know, just curious, as those companies are BIG, and they may know something that we don't... 
I wonder why companies like the UAD guys and also Scope (XITE) still use Shark DSP processors, compared to just going into full Intel based solutions. I know you guys posted some history behind the UAD, but still wonder, from today tech, why they still avoid intel. Maybe is something else that we don't know about? Or I'm just mumbling things right now... one thing I know, Video Game Consoles have to pick a video-chip at some point, and work with it, while PC video-cards improve, they stay the same. The main reason is cost. But if we had something like a Kyma or XITE device that would use generic Intel processors, it could be upgraded, but them again, Intel chips chance very often, which could be problematic. While Shark DSP chips are mostly the same for a long time, with only minor updates... I don't know, just curious, as those companies are BIG, and they may know something that we don't... -
- KVRian
- 740 posts since 14 Apr, 2004 from Rome
Wouldn't be full optimization?
Sharc specs better than intels for some purposes?
If I remember well, sun microsystems used multi sharcs systems a lot of years ago in their workstations/servers for specialized tasks.
Dunno if it's about cisc/risc stuff... I'm going too much into unexplored fields to me.
Just curious too!
Sharc specs better than intels for some purposes?
If I remember well, sun microsystems used multi sharcs systems a lot of years ago in their workstations/servers for specialized tasks.
Dunno if it's about cisc/risc stuff... I'm going too much into unexplored fields to me.
Just curious too!
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- KVRist
- 36 posts since 6 Jul, 2008
maybe you guys should have a look at arm thingies,
for example :
http://hardkernel.com/main/products/prd ... 7510300620
for example :
http://hardkernel.com/main/products/prd ... 7510300620
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 9 Jul, 2009
one of the last chapters of scientists and engineers guide to dsp, goes into using ANN to help create unique a recursive filter design, so damn cool. And where that Neuron synth comes from in the history of prosoniq, that's lead to mind boggling devices like unfilter and pitchmap. Those guys algorithms are pure bonkers.raikard233 wrote:Anyone remember Hartmann Neuron hw specs?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmann_Neuron
ANN's are perfect for parallel processors, could be worth exploring with something like the parallella.
Still the celeron could be shit, but it's probably enough for a pretty capable embedded media installation. Will be enough power to keep quite a few things in check. And PC route is def cheap and easy to design for, even run reaktor/MAX/VUO etc and not touch any C at all.
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- KVRAF
- 5948 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia
Reading this thread it's difficult to stop thinking about why you want Access, Elektron, UAD to go out of business :-/
Do you think these companies are producing devices costing thousands of dollars because they are stupid? Because they are secretly manufacturing the Octatrack for 20 bucks and ripping consumers off for 1000s?
Although Access look like a huge company, they are small fish compared to the likes of Apple / MS / Samsung.
In the case of Elektron, these are basically hand built boutique instruments regardless of how the marketing makes it look. Anyone can produce a slick looking video to promote something these days with the tools we have available.
That type of quality / support / reliability - the kind of reliability that lets people perform in front of 100,000 people with confidence - doesn't come cheap.
I dunno, sorry to focus on the non-technical aspect but "put these companies out of business" seems like a really strange goal when there are far more important targets for "anti-consumerist rage" in this world.
Peace,
Andy.
Do you think these companies are producing devices costing thousands of dollars because they are stupid? Because they are secretly manufacturing the Octatrack for 20 bucks and ripping consumers off for 1000s?
Although Access look like a huge company, they are small fish compared to the likes of Apple / MS / Samsung.
In the case of Elektron, these are basically hand built boutique instruments regardless of how the marketing makes it look. Anyone can produce a slick looking video to promote something these days with the tools we have available.
That type of quality / support / reliability - the kind of reliability that lets people perform in front of 100,000 people with confidence - doesn't come cheap.
I dunno, sorry to focus on the non-technical aspect but "put these companies out of business" seems like a really strange goal when there are far more important targets for "anti-consumerist rage" in this world.
Peace,
Andy.
... space is the place ...
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- KVRAF
- 5948 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia
And FWIW, it reminds me of the misplaced consumer rage some people have against companies like Native Instruments / U-he / Camel Audio / etc. because they have a nice looking website and sell products that cost more than 100 bucks.
... space is the place ...
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33156 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Yeah, that's exactly where I found them. There might be other options out there, but that price point kinda screams out for a mention.b&t wrote:Actually hands down you are the absolute boss. Thank you so damn much. £63: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte ... ata-ii-3gb
Keep your eye on the Intel NUC systems as well. A bit more expensive, but more compact still and running all the way up to modern i5 spec. Still cheaper than an iPad though.
Glad it makes sense to you. Ive got no specific aversion to DSP routes, FWIW, I just think that because regular old 'consumer' systems get produced in such vast quantities that they compete incredibly well on price, they evolve (get more powerful) faster, and they also leverage the largest preexisting body of code and information around. I kinda think Arduinos have been so successful in their space for exactly the same reason...You just made me so happy happy! Swear they've even got dev written subtly (or not so) in the title, D3V mini!! Brilliant, that is cheaper than those boards and just about ever damn thing you mentioned just really makes sense, standard I/O's and preexisting toolkits etc. FLIP you could run max or whatever. Best route thank you soooo much.
Also consider the way its going with something like the new Roland System-1 and its Plug-out feature. You can run direct from the hardware via a plugin in your DAW, like some other existing hardware. But you can also run it as a plugin, entirely separately. And then you can 'send' it from the plugin to the hardware and take the hardware away.
That sort of thing's going to be possible for a lot more people to implement if both systems are running the same engine code on the same basic underlying platform.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33156 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Because the Kronos was derived from the (2005 generation) OASYS, which was also PC based (A 2.8Ghz Pentium4). Dont forget that Korg had made a fair investment in Mac-based SynthKit, the basis of the development environment for the original Oasys/Prophet/Z-1 generation.WilliamK wrote:Also, I wonder why Korg used the Atom processor, and not something different.
<speculation>
I'd suggest that SynthKit evolved onto the x86 platform when Apple went that way, and the x86 itself eventually became a viable test platform for SynthKit algorithms. Eventually Korg could stop having to target a DSP platform at all and target the X86 itself. They'd gone down the native softsynth route, they had that platform mastered so no major leap involved. Seems to have been relatively straightfoward for them to port to ARM too (iOS), so I wouldnt be surprised to see that crop up in their future systems either. Maybe SynthKit, or whatever replaced it, is now a frontend to XCode or GCC, that'd make parallel x86/ARM development 'fairly' straightforward.
</speculation>
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
