Hi,
I compared the pitch shifting of MMultibandHarmonizer (Vocoder high) to the offline pitch shifting in Cubase, and I found that MMBHarmonizer sounds approx. like the faster algos in Cubase, but the best/slowest algos of Cubase sound better, cleaner.
This is no surprise since Harmonizer was designed for realtime use and it has to be fast.
My question is, would it be possible to implement a higher quality mode into the Harmonizer that is (automatically but configurable) used for offline rendering?
Harmonizer offline rendering
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1758 posts since 15 Mar, 2013 from Germany
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Hi,
well, I'm afraid it's not that simple. Basically, there's no perfect pitch shifting algorithm. Each algorithm works with some materials better than with others. To be perfectly honest, as far as I know Cubase uses one of the most advanced 3rd party algos out there, so I can imagine it would sound better than MMultiBandHarmonizer, for some audio materials at least. Development of such thing would take a long time and money, so I'm afraid it won't happen here, at least for now.
Btw. I actually found out, that for some audio materials MMultiBandHarmonizer sounds better in low-latency mode. This is kind of logical for highly transient material such as drums or even vocals, so you may try that.
And for the record, I'm 100% against changing settings/algos for offline rendering. It's extremely dangerous, because then your mix may just sound different, you won't know why and it's very hard to figure it out.
well, I'm afraid it's not that simple. Basically, there's no perfect pitch shifting algorithm. Each algorithm works with some materials better than with others. To be perfectly honest, as far as I know Cubase uses one of the most advanced 3rd party algos out there, so I can imagine it would sound better than MMultiBandHarmonizer, for some audio materials at least. Development of such thing would take a long time and money, so I'm afraid it won't happen here, at least for now.
Btw. I actually found out, that for some audio materials MMultiBandHarmonizer sounds better in low-latency mode. This is kind of logical for highly transient material such as drums or even vocals, so you may try that.
And for the record, I'm 100% against changing settings/algos for offline rendering. It's extremely dangerous, because then your mix may just sound different, you won't know why and it's very hard to figure it out.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1758 posts since 15 Mar, 2013 from Germany
OK thanks for the info. Good tip with the Vocoder modi, I will keep that in mind, though my current case is a human voice so I guess it won't help me there.
I am also aware that some users might be against an offline rendering sounding different than online playback. But e.g. in Kontakt they just made it configurable, that is the perfect solution. The user can configure whether offline rendering quality should be the same as online rendering or better/perfect.
I am also aware that some users might be against an offline rendering sounding different than online playback. But e.g. in Kontakt they just made it configurable, that is the perfect solution. The user can configure whether offline rendering quality should be the same as online rendering or better/perfect.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
It actually may help you with human voice. I often ended up with low-latency mode for that. Human voice is very "transient".
As for offline rendering, I'm personally so against it that I just won't add it to to-do list. I think it's wrong in principle. It encourages people to use things they don't even hear and count on magical features, that should make things sound "better", but in practice they often won't.
A typical example is upsampling - how many times I get the question about offline upsampling enable. And how many times I had to explain what upsampling is, and that it is NOT a miraculous cure...
The golden rule is - if you hear it and you like it, use it, otherwise stick the hell out of it
.
As for offline rendering, I'm personally so against it that I just won't add it to to-do list. I think it's wrong in principle. It encourages people to use things they don't even hear and count on magical features, that should make things sound "better", but in practice they often won't.
A typical example is upsampling - how many times I get the question about offline upsampling enable. And how many times I had to explain what upsampling is, and that it is NOT a miraculous cure...
The golden rule is - if you hear it and you like it, use it, otherwise stick the hell out of it
.
