If hosts stop supporting x86 plugins, then requirement for "Shells", "Wrappers" and "Bit-Bridges" is as likely to increase.Compyfox wrote:I actually mean it the other way around - complete drop of support for x86 (32bit) plugins!
What hosts still don't support x32 and x64 plugs at the same time?
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 14656 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Not if it's going the ProTools and Logic Model.
Read: (initial) refusal of "bridging".
Read: (initial) refusal of "bridging".
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
What 'it' ? 'The DAW development industry as a monolith' or something?Compyfox wrote:Not if it's going the ProTools and Logic Model.
How do you reconcile your statement with the plethora of bridging solutions aimed at both?Read: (initial) refusal of "bridging".
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 14656 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Sheesh, why do you need to act like a stick in the mud all the time and insist that your opinion/comments are ultimate?!
The host industry IS aiming at going full x64 as of late. And it's about time.
Who knows when x128 OS's will hit, and when the host developers then decide "you know... let's go this route and drop support for everything else". Apple started this - no warning beforehand, they just cut the 32bit support with Logic X and did not let ANYONE on board for a couple of weeks to come. By now, bridging should be possible.
AVID on the other hand even sued creators of wrappers that made it possible to not only bridge 32bit plugins to the new AAX 64bit engine, but also "load" VST plugins in ProTools. This also took a while until the madness toned down.
Steinberg told me, in a really non-subtle manner, several times by now, that "64bit is the future". The next host update is due in a couple of months I think. Chances are that Cubase will drop 32bit support as well at some point (maybe also VST2.x, which would be their own neck breaker since it's still flawed - though lucky for us, the VST3 SDK is backwards compatible!). Then again, in this case we have access to capable bitbridges/wrappers.
The trend is there.
And while we can still debate if 64bit plugins over 64bit VSTi (sample based) make sense, we can't overlook the fact that 32bit is slowly dying out. Heck even FlowStone and SynthEdit finally took a peek at 64bit!
So if hosts don't have bit bridges built in (which are getting less), wrappers like jBridge are more and more in the focus. The question is... for how long?
The host industry IS aiming at going full x64 as of late. And it's about time.
Who knows when x128 OS's will hit, and when the host developers then decide "you know... let's go this route and drop support for everything else". Apple started this - no warning beforehand, they just cut the 32bit support with Logic X and did not let ANYONE on board for a couple of weeks to come. By now, bridging should be possible.
AVID on the other hand even sued creators of wrappers that made it possible to not only bridge 32bit plugins to the new AAX 64bit engine, but also "load" VST plugins in ProTools. This also took a while until the madness toned down.
Steinberg told me, in a really non-subtle manner, several times by now, that "64bit is the future". The next host update is due in a couple of months I think. Chances are that Cubase will drop 32bit support as well at some point (maybe also VST2.x, which would be their own neck breaker since it's still flawed - though lucky for us, the VST3 SDK is backwards compatible!). Then again, in this case we have access to capable bitbridges/wrappers.
The trend is there.
And while we can still debate if 64bit plugins over 64bit VSTi (sample based) make sense, we can't overlook the fact that 32bit is slowly dying out. Heck even FlowStone and SynthEdit finally took a peek at 64bit!
So if hosts don't have bit bridges built in (which are getting less), wrappers like jBridge are more and more in the focus. The question is... for how long?
- KVRAF
- 3888 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
The question should be:
Why DAW developers should keep supporting old technology? Why they have to make the effort for the lack of updates of plug in developers?
For the plug in developers are responsible for making their products work on current platforms, specially since it has been quite a while since 64x came around.
Why DAW developers should keep supporting old technology? Why they have to make the effort for the lack of updates of plug in developers?
For the plug in developers are responsible for making their products work on current platforms, specially since it has been quite a while since 64x came around.
dedication to flying
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
No, that's what you're doing. Im pointing out flaws in your logic, something you really dont seem to be able to cope with.Compyfox wrote:Sheesh, why do you need to act like a stick in the mud all the time and insist that your opinion/comments are ultimate?!
Its not a monolothic industry, and most of the independent host developers are doing nothing of the sort.The host industry IS aiming at going full x64 as of late. And it's about time.
They wont. Not until you need to address more storage in RAM than currently exists as hard drive space on this planet.Who knows when x128 OS's will hit
Do they do that by postal vote, or do they have a conference?, and when the host developers then decide "you know... let's go this route and drop support for everything else".
Yeah, but that's Apple, who make planned obsolescence the cornerstone of their business.Apple started this - no warning beforehand, they just cut the 32bit support with Logic X and did not let ANYONE on board for a couple of weeks to come. By now, bridging should be possible.
Absolute nonsense. Noone was sued. Sugarbytes were told their wrapper was a breach of the AAX developer agreement and they pulled it. Subsequently, at least 4 different AAX plugins hosting VST have appeared.AVID on the other hand even sued creators of wrappers that made it possible to not only bridge 32bit plugins to the new AAX 64bit engine, but also "load" VST plugins in ProTools. This also took a while until the madness toned down.
Sugarbytes plugin, unlike the ones which followed, made VST appear like AAX plugins in the menus.
What, those thing that you said would disappear but I said were likely to become more useful?Steinberg told me, in a really non-subtle manner, several times by now, that "64bit is the future".
The next host update is due in a couple of months I think. Chances are that Cubase will drop 32bit support as well at some point (maybe also VST2.x, which would be their own neck breaker since it's still flawed - though lucky for us, the VST3 SDK is backwards compatible!). Then again, in this case we have access to capable bitbridges/wrappers.
Well congrats for taking the most argumentative route possible to basically concede I had a point.
Noone's debating that. Strawman.And while we can still debate if 64bit plugins over 64bit VSTi (sample based) make sense, we can't overlook the fact that 32bit is slowly dying out. Heck even FlowStone and SynthEdit finally took a peek at 64bit!
Umm, really? I woulda nevva thunk it if. Not even when you were telling me I was wrong for saying it. <cough>So if hosts don't have bit bridges built in (which are getting less), wrappers like jBridge are more and more in the focus.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
There's no 'should' to it. They can if they want to. If they reckon they'll make more sales by doing so, why wouldnt they? Especially the independents. Also, I'd imagine there's plenty of people with legacy software and hardware that would be quite happy to only have to update their DAW software, not their entire PC and OS.rod_zero wrote:The question should be:
Why DAW developers should keep supporting old technology? Why they have to make the effort for the lack of updates of plug in developers?
For the plug in developers are responsible for making their products work on current platforms, specially since it has been quite a while since 64x came around.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 6154 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
Not that my workflow is relevant to anyone else but I don't have much problem with it (x86 / x64) tbh.
Mostly because my work processes are (for the most part) separated. During production with VI's I use x64 to use more ram and don't even care that I can't access my 32-bit audio plugins. During mixing I boot into x86 and use all my favorite older audio plugs that aren't 64-bit yet. By that time all of the VI's are frozen or stemmed so ram is no longer an issue. I almost always mix in x86.
If I'm just tracking audio, live audio, I always work in x86.
During production in x64 with VI's I use mostly all stock Comps, EQ's, Verbs, etc, etc. If I have a goto plug in x86 I might replace some of those in the mix stage. Nothing is final until the mix stage anyway.
I don't think I own a single audio plug that's x86 only that would stop me from producing sample based music in x64 without it. Mixing is a different story, I do depend on some of those for mixing... like ThrillSeeker LA, I love that plugin.
Mmv as usual.
Mostly because my work processes are (for the most part) separated. During production with VI's I use x64 to use more ram and don't even care that I can't access my 32-bit audio plugins. During mixing I boot into x86 and use all my favorite older audio plugs that aren't 64-bit yet. By that time all of the VI's are frozen or stemmed so ram is no longer an issue. I almost always mix in x86.
If I'm just tracking audio, live audio, I always work in x86.
During production in x64 with VI's I use mostly all stock Comps, EQ's, Verbs, etc, etc. If I have a goto plug in x86 I might replace some of those in the mix stage. Nothing is final until the mix stage anyway.
I don't think I own a single audio plug that's x86 only that would stop me from producing sample based music in x64 without it. Mixing is a different story, I do depend on some of those for mixing... like ThrillSeeker LA, I love that plugin.
Mmv as usual.
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- KVRAF
- 14656 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
If I had as much time as our beloved whyterabbyt, and I'd get a dollar for every "post dissection" as he's doing - I'd be rich by now and chilling in a jacuzzi.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
I doubt it. You'd spend it doing even more whinging and griping than you do now.Compyfox wrote:If I had as much time as our beloved whyterabbyt, and I'd get a dollar for every "post dissection" as he's doing - I'd be rich by now and chilling in a jacuzzi.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 14656 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Look who's talking.
It's remarkable how useful a "mute" function is.
At least I don't fall into insults.
It's remarkable how useful a "mute" function is.
At least I don't fall into insults.
- KVRAF
- 25051 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I have a number of really useful and unique plugs, some very recently acquired, that aren't and may never be x64.
I'm using Cubase 5 which isn't. VE Pro will open both kinds of servers and I have no worries at all, since for me the very advent of x64 in I think late 2010.
All I know about Cubase's bit bridge is every part of it crashes when I rebuild preferences. I would guess it maybe doesn't work here.
I got an out of memory message from Kontakt the other day loading in the 32-bit, preferring a certain workflow with a certain amp sim, but fortunately I have many options. But there's more than one way to skin a cat. I would hate to be limited to the DAW host as spoiled as I am with VE Pro and this is not so trivial for me.
I'm using Cubase 5 which isn't. VE Pro will open both kinds of servers and I have no worries at all, since for me the very advent of x64 in I think late 2010.
All I know about Cubase's bit bridge is every part of it crashes when I rebuild preferences. I would guess it maybe doesn't work here.
I got an out of memory message from Kontakt the other day loading in the 32-bit, preferring a certain workflow with a certain amp sim, but fortunately I have many options. But there's more than one way to skin a cat. I would hate to be limited to the DAW host as spoiled as I am with VE Pro and this is not so trivial for me.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Try DOSBox or VirtualBox.arkmabat wrote:I have some old Win95 games that don't run on an x64 system. Sad day really...
my other modular synth is a bugbrand