MDrummer and Probability

[edkilp]

I have a specific task i need to accomplish, and i want to know if it's possible. I would like a snare drag, where the stick is lightly brushed across the snare. I can do this quite well by increasing the quantize and lowering the velocity. In fact, it sounds very convincing. The issue is when it happens. I don't want it happening all the time. I can get the desired effect with the probability setting, but I need to have all the notes of the snare drag responding to the same probability setting.

In other words, probability works great, but I think I need to set particular groups of notes together. Hard to explain, but I need all the notes of the snare drag (let's say there are 4) to play or not play together. If I set the probability for each of the 4 hits, sometimes the first and second play, sometimes the first and fourth. Does this make sense?

Can we set up groups of notes that respond to probability the same?

[MeldaProduction]

Hmmm, so you want like random "brushing"?? I needed to read it 4 times to actually get this point, so I hope I'm right .
Anyway in that case I'd do this - create a dedicated rhythm for it and use several loop boxes (beats should work) and place the that "thing" into each of them, but always just 4 of them. MDrummer will start randomly switching between the beats, so it will occur at different times.

[edkilp]

OK I see where that would do what I want. Would you consider the possibility of probability groups? I'm no programmer, so I have no idea what is involved in that. In my small mind, it's kind of like choke groups in a sampler. I think it would add to the realism if this could be implemented. A real drummer might throw in an accent kick or a snare drag sometimes, but not every measure. If this could be randomized using the probability control I'd be really happy with that. But if not, I suppose separate beats in separate loop boxes controlled by velocity will yeild the same results. Thanks!

[MeldaProduction]

I'm afraid that would be way too complex. But I'm actually thinking about another possibility - you can use effects for that - just use a dedicated drum as snare drum (any drum type you don't usually use) and place 3 delays to it with no feedback. Joys of the effect engine .

[edkilp]

I think I like the separate loop boxes better. It actually works really well, and it's no time at all to copy and paste, make a few subtle changes and get on with it. Thank you

[goldglob]

Good topic.
The delay method actually sounds pretty good, but yeah, the random composed loops sound more real and allow for the subtle changes (offset, deflection etc).
Just thinking further...could you compose a drag in MD, then record the output, then use that as a sample in your library. You could do this for as many drums as you like, do a few different drags for each one, and put them in your own folders in the components directory. Your drag sample is just one blob on the edit grid and so can have a probability.

[edkilp]

Just thinking further...could you compose a drag in MD, then record the output, then use that as a sample in your library. You could do this for as many drums as you like, do a few different drags for each one, and put them in your own folders in the components directory. Your drag sample is just one blob on the edit grid and so can have a probability.

I suppose that could work, too. I personally don't mess around with importing samples into MD, so for me that might be a bit more trouble than it's worth. After experimenting a little bit, I'm becoming quite attached to the idea of composing several different beats with various subtle differences, and just randomly assigning velocity levels to trigger them. Using the MIDI control method, of course. The results are pretty convincing.

I'm just copying and pasting, adding an accent kick here, an open hat there, maybe a snare drag somewhere. The time it takes is almost negligible. And of course, I can add more variations to each beat's loop box than I'll ever need for one song. Unless I want to mimic a drummer who just doesn't know what the hell he wants to play!

[goldglob]

^^^^^^
Yep....And after all that composing I 'save multiple loops' (Editor tab>Import/Export button) into my own folders. Then when I'm generating a new rhythm, I can home in on those saved folders in Rhythm generator tab> Advanced settings; thus generating new stuff from my own carefully crafted loops.
Re random velocities in midi command to trigger different index boxes, you can of course just set MD to choose random ones anyway. I usually do that first then later on if I want the overall song to be more specific I disable random and use velocities to trigger specific index box loops that I want at a certain place.

Taking this further, have you checked out Rhythm editor tab> Advanced button> Generate from template?

[edkilp]

Where do you set MD to choose random velocities?

Or are you referring to random loops?

[goldglob]

Rhythm Editor> Settings> Additional> Random loops button. This applies to the loops in the loop index list panel, which is where you're pasting/ adjusting your variations..yes? But if random loops is disabled, the different velocities in Midi command trigger these variations.

[edkilp]

OK, that's a good thing to know. I actually thought that when Random loops was selected, it would randomly play beats from all the loop boxes. In other words, I thought it would play a loop with a ride, then the next measure would be hats, the next open hat accents. I wasn't aware that it would stay in the selected loop box. Yep, that's the way I'll do it now, unless there's a specific loop that I want to hear. Thanks for that info.

[goldglob]

Yeah, in midi command, keys choose loopbox, and velocity chooses which loop within loopbox and random loops sort of takes over from the velocity thing. One of the difficulties with MD is the sometimes ambiguous/vague naming of things...beats, grooves, loops, loops within loopboxes, index boxes, rhythms, base rhythms, templates...and velocity can refer to midi command, or individual notes on the edit grid, or velocity layers on drums etc.......I mentioned in another post that I've tried to logically map it all out on paper but I end up with spagetti; it's getting there though...need some spare time. BTW, I heard your Aerodrums thing over on the Reaper forum, seemed like no problem with latency..nice. It's 2.45 am here in London so time to shutdown. Cheers.

[edkilp]

Thanks for the compliment. The Aerodrums seem to be working out very well. It will be awesome for basic stuff, but I'll still need MD for songs that I'm not capable of playing. I mean, I can play drums to an extent, but the drummer in my head is a lot better than I'll ever be! So, I can use Aerodrums for my AC/DC-type songs, and I'll use MD for the intricate stuff.

I have the guys at Aerodrums working on a map for MD, so I can use MD's drum sounds. I've come up with some kits in MD that I really like, and I meant it when I said I'm preferring the MD sounds to just about everything else I have amassed over the years. There's something weird about the way Aerodrums sends hi-hat info, and the way MD receives it.

If you record the midi output, you'll see only open hh and pedal hh. It has something to do with CC4. The last reply I got from the guys at Aerodrums was this:

So, in MDrummer, instead of the hi-hat being triggered by a single MIDI note + the CC4 events, instead, one MIDI note is used to trigger a closed hi-hat and another MIDI note triggers the open hi-hat. Therefore, there would need to be some way to convert the hi-hat note + CC4 data into a different hi-hat note (either open or closed). Most DAWs probably allow you to script this kind of functionality. The conversion could also be done in Aerodrums (as an option in the MIDI screen) if you think it's very important to support.

Maybe they can figure something out. As of now, when I play the hi hat, I only get open hats or pedal. Can't get a closed hat to play. If this can be worked out, I'll not need anything else installed on my computer besides MD and Aerodrums. No EZ Drummer, Superior, Addictive Drums, Kontakt...none of that stuff. We'll see!

[MeldaProduction]

Hmmm, note + CC4, I guess that's for multi levels of open hihat. Well, it would be quite a mess adding it to the MIDI output filters. But I'd think it should be a piece of cake for Aerodrums - just add 2 MIDI notes, for closed and open hihat, as every other drum machine has.

[Simon Posford]

Nice post
I have just thinked midijam mode with MD playing back percussions and a man/female on aero drums could be cool.
By the way the request for a simple buttons or whatever to add random rag would be very great and more easy than the 2 others methods i have already seen this before in some others drum soft.