How to automate Z3TA+2 pitch bend in Live?

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I asked this question in the Instruments forum, none seems to know.
I try again is this section - I also found the similar question (see below) in the FL forum (I don´t have the FL), unfortunately the answer how to do this in the Live remained unanswered.

So - anyone who uses Z3TA+2 and Live or FL Studio: please check this. Normal way to do the automation don´t work.
There must be more than just me how use Live with this synth, KVR has thousands of Live users!

So, the question is: how to automate pitch bend for Z3TA+2 in Live? Because most obvious won´t work,
I e.g. opened "edit the MIDI map" -> min/max in Live, but haven´t used this function (if this is the answer?, see below), don´t know how set the min/max.

Harry

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Reference question/reply in the FL forum:

Hi,

I tried automating the parameter Bend Up. I see the values changing in Z3ta in the Perform tab relative to my automation slope but the pitch does not change. However, as soon as I just touch my Pitch Wheel on my controller it starts pitching up.
Any idea's on how to fully automate a pitch up?
Thanks.

Automate Channel settings Pitch Knob
You have to change the Automation Clip's channel settings to Min = 0, Max = 100

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Not sure what you mean by edit midi map and automating parameters on the synth. You should be able to go to the clip envelope, go to the midi section, choose pitch bend, draw automation, done. For pitch bend you dont want to automate an actual synth parameter rather send it standard midi pitch bend modulation

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ezelkow1 wrote:Not sure what you mean by edit midi map and automating parameters on the synth. You should be able to go to the clip envelope, go to the midi section, choose pitch bend, draw automation, done. For pitch bend you dont want to automate an actual synth parameter rather send it standard midi pitch bend modulation
Bottom line here is: have you automated Z3TA+2 pitch bend yourself in Live? Why the normal way to draw the automation won't work in this case? H.

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I have ALS 8 and Z3ta+ 2.

When you say automate, you mean programing a automation?

If so, then record a midi clip, double click it, click on "E" on clip property, click "Pitch Bend", then draw your automation.

If this is not the answer, then I'm lost in translation (english is not my tongue).

Sorry for my bad english.

My 2 cents

Edit: woops, ezelkow1 just explained above, sorry :oops:

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Harry_HH wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:Not sure what you mean by edit midi map and automating parameters on the synth. You should be able to go to the clip envelope, go to the midi section, choose pitch bend, draw automation, done. For pitch bend you dont want to automate an actual synth parameter rather send it standard midi pitch bend modulation
Bottom line here is: have you automated Z3TA+2 pitch bend yourself in Live? Why the normal way to draw the automation won't work in this case? H.
Yes I have done this, it works. It is the normal way to draw automation for pitch, thats the point I was getting at. To change pitch you dont normally automate anything within the synth the itself, which is what it sounded like you were trying to do. You automate the midi pitch bend, which is part of the midi standard, so you have to choose midi from the drop down box of parameter selections in automation

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XorXisT wrote:I have ALS 8 and Z3ta+ 2.

When you say automate, you mean programing a automation?

If so, then record a midi clip, double click it, click on "E" on clip property, click "Pitch Bend", then draw your automation.

If this is not the answer, then I'm lost in translation (english is not my tongue).

Sorry for my bad english.

My 2 cents

Edit: woops, ezelkow1 just explained above, sorry :oops:
Hi, I don't mean the Live midi clip edit where you can automate e.g. volume, pan or pitch of the clip. I mean setting the automation to the arrangement view->choose track plugin in the track automation control chooser->choose the plugin parameter there, in this case the pitch bend->draw the automation. I find this (or latch record) the "normal way" to do the automation. As said, all other Z3TA+2 parameters but the pitch seems to work ok.

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ezelkow1 wrote:
Harry_HH wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:Not sure what you mean by edit midi map and automating parameters on the synth. You should be able to go to the clip envelope, go to the midi section, choose pitch bend, draw automation, done. For pitch bend you dont want to automate an actual synth parameter rather send it standard midi pitch bend modulation
Bottom line here is: have you automated Z3TA+2 pitch bend yourself in Live? Why the normal way to draw the automation won't work in this case? H.
Yes I have done this, it works. It is the normal way to draw automation for pitch, thats the point I was getting at. To change pitch you dont normally automate anything within the synth the itself, which is what it sounded like you were trying to do. You automate the midi pitch bend, which is part of the midi standard, so you have to choose midi from the drop down box of parameter selections in automation
Hi, I think that the pitch is parameter among the other plugin parameters, which should be able to be automated as described - e.g. volume is also "part of the midi standard", but you can automate it in the arrangement (as well as in midi clip edit). Why the pitch should be exception - pitch parameter is also in the Z3TA perform section.

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That volume your automating is probably the track volume, or the volume directly as a parameter in z3ta. Pitch bend is only automatable in arrangement if the synth actually exposes its pitch modwheel as a parameter, which most dont. To do this in arrangement you either have to modify the clip itself using the midi-pitchbend envelope, or you can drop a pitch midi effect in the track and then automate that. Ableton does not expose the midi automatable parameters (pitchbend, modwheel, cc#,volume, sustain, etc) to the arrangement view. So the volume your seeing is not the midi volume control but some other one

You can probably automate the pitch of each individual oscillator in z3ta if you've exposed them through the configure panel, and possibly you could also automate the global transpose panel that is at the bottom right of z3ta as well

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Thank you - I see I learn something new every day. I wonder I haven't noticed this fundamental thing before, although I have automated the pitch before. Perhaps those instruments have had some kind of sub-section pitch (or separate oscillator pitch as you wrote) which I've used. H.

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Harry_HH wrote:
XorXisT wrote:I have ALS 8 and Z3ta+ 2.

When you say automate, you mean programing a automation?

If so, then record a midi clip, double click it, click on "E" on clip property, click "Pitch Bend", then draw your automation.

If this is not the answer, then I'm lost in translation (english is not my tongue).

Sorry for my bad english.

My 2 cents

Edit: woops, ezelkow1 just explained above, sorry :oops:
Hi, I don't mean the Live midi clip edit where you can automate e.g. volume, pan or pitch of the clip. I mean setting the automation to the arrangement view->choose track plugin in the track automation control chooser->choose the plugin parameter there, in this case the pitch bend->draw the automation. I find this (or latch record) the "normal way" to do the automation. As said, all other Z3TA+2 parameters but the pitch seems to work ok.
Ah... undestood.

Just tried in arrangement view and parameter don't show up, so we're out of luck.

But the clip envelope workaround does what you want?

Like ezelkow1 said, maybe this is a midi only, hardware related thing.

Edit: tried in Sonar X3 Pro and guest what? It can be done.

Edit2: :oops: no pitch bend parameter on Sonar X3 Pro :oops:
Last edited by XorXisT on Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ezelkow1 wrote:That volume your automating is probably the track volume, or the volume directly as a parameter in z3ta. Pitch bend is only automatable in arrangement if the synth actually exposes its pitch modwheel as a parameter, which most dont. To do this in arrangement you either have to modify the clip itself using the midi-pitchbend envelope, or you can drop a pitch midi effect in the track and then automate that. Ableton does not expose the midi automatable parameters (pitchbend, modwheel, cc#,volume, sustain, etc) to the arrangement view. So the volume your seeing is not the midi volume control but some other one

You can probably automate the pitch of each individual oscillator in z3ta if you've exposed them through the configure panel, and possibly you could also automate the global transpose panel that is at the bottom right of z3ta as well
Alternatively, you can drop the clip from the arrangement into a slot in the session view, then draw in the pitch bend envelope, and then use that clip to replace the clip in the arrangement. It's still a workaround and a bit silly, but it works.

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