N00b ready for a critique! 80s synth clichés abound!

[billy7]

Hi all

I'm someone that's spent a long time - well - 16 years doing guitar based rock music (see recent ep here - http://themal.es) but now I'm taking a leap out of my comfort zone to learn electronic stuff. I love the sounds of John Carpenter, so anything 80s is my jam - loving Mitch Murder and stuff like that.

I really want some critique of my progress learning Logic / music production - don't hold back, it'll help me learn! So I'm super keen to hear what you guys think, here's my latest attempt -

https://soundcloud.com/willgoldstone/carpenter-hotline

I know there's a lot of stuff I could improve, some initial thoughts - toms sound sucks, mix of slap bass and synth bass is a bit weird and not that well executed, I know very little about mixing, so this just has my first attempt at buses for effects and some use of side chain compression. Any recommendations you can make would be super welcomed!

Also any recommendations on what to read / watch / communities to join to learn more about what I'm lacking.

Thanks all,

Will

[layzer]

hi and welcome to the forum!
great to see another 80's aficionado on here!
i listen on koss portapro headphones on my laptop as a reference for what a typical mix should sound like on a consumer
auditioning scenario. as a song i think it needs some chord variation, and the lead synth line not so repeated. production-wise i found the bass drum and snare drum either too loud or needing some mid-bass cut and the hats lacked a bit of sizzle. the toms do sound a little dull as well. the lead synth a little too "in your face" making the strings/pads sound buried by comparison. the guitar arps at the end sat good in the mix, though. those are just my 2 bits. keep up the good work!

[billy7]

Hi Layzer

cheers for the reply. One quick question - my post was moved to this forum, is this the place for music critique itself? my post is a bit of a mixed set of questions, hence posting in Getting Started forum originally.

Yeah the song definitely needed actual arrangement! and of course that means more than one part (the simpler part just being a breakdown of the main bass riff after all). Agreed the lead may be a little too in your face, so what is the best way to balance? should they just be lower in the mix? or should I compress it somehow? I used a compressor on them side chained from the lead arps near the end which pushes them down okay, though I don't really know what I'm doing freq wise, so I need to learn more about that. Any similar artists you can recommend that I should listen to from now or then? And any instruments I should look to buy real or plug-in wise?

Thanks again for the response

Will

[Chopper]

you seem to be aware of most of your weaknesses (which is a good thing), and Layzer covered a few more important details. if you want a more 80's sound, i would advise you to have all your drums going through the same separate buss, in order to compress them together, so they ''gel'' better as one instrument. the kick/snare/hats are to much standing as separate tracks rather than what they should be: a drum track. the lead is indeed a bit to ''in your face''. eq out some unrequired freqs from it, it would help. a short but rich plate reverb would be a good choice as well on a few elements.
eqs, eqs, eqs... low cuts and high cuts. very few 80's productions had their elements so full on as in modern production. it was all about mids back then, which wasn't as easy as it seems... that's another reason why your lead is so prominent but your arpeggio at the end blends in so nicely.
you've got the musical side of what makes 80's covered, the mix, indeed, is what you should focus on. it's not that bad, just not as ''80's'' as the composition (where every cliches are dutyfully coverd )

[billy7]

hi Chopper

Cheers for your thoughts - that's ace and uber useful. So you rightly pointed out I do indeed have separate buses for things. So I have kik, snares, hats etc buses, so I'm not putting them spacially together as I think I probably slacked on using the same amounts of the reverb bus.. if that's what you meant may help?

Here's a quick grab to show what I had setup in Logic - 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tvvl468y3uibgvs/mess.jpg?dl=0

point being, it's a fair old mess. The reason? drums. I'm not settled on a drum sound yet - and I'm using a combo of 'whatever sounded cool' and not really paid attention to what each part had on it by default fx wise. So for example I used EXS24 sampler for kik snare and hats, but then they run to their own buses ( i have multiple tracks of each type so I can more easily record and move things around ) but I don't have an 'overall drums bus' with the sends to reverb - each of the different parts go to the reverb buses to differing extents, probably why it sounds odd?

As for the primary lead (not the arp at end) , should it just be lower in the mix you think? or should I mix it differently?

Thanks again!

Will

[billy7]

Ok! I had a quick mess around have now adjusted the mix to take in some of the feedback you guys offered, let me know if you prefer this mix!

https://soundcloud.com/willgoldstone/ca ... line-mix-2

[fluffy_little_something]

Maybe it's just my impression, but I think those drum sounds were mostly used in black music, whereas that track as such is rather white.

Personally I find the lead irritating, and the whole thing is way too long in my view. A problem with most instrumental music, unless made by really good musicians like in Fusion.

[billy7]

Hi Fluffy

Which drum sounds in particular? and 'ok' to the ethnicity of the track - I guess I take your point? not sure what I can do about this though.

Thanks also for your opinion on the lead - it's fair enough you're entitled to it! I've used a somewhat grating saw sound as a stylistic choice, so totally get if you don't like it. Definitely agree though that it outstays it's welcome, as I mentioned, I'm using this as an opportunity to learn making this kind of music - I'm totally new to it, so I've gone after understanding the tech and sounds over making decent arrangements. Ultimate goal is to have vocals in some how, or samples. We'll see. Anyway thanks for commenting.