KVR Audio

mhog · Post by **mhog** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:50 pm

Given the fact the factory pre-programmed patterns ("red zone" C1-B1 in Akkord, West Africa etc.) are midi sequences (as I can guess reading the script), I ask if there is any way to export them into midi tracks. I mean: not the single zone played (e.g. C1, C2 etc.), but the entire data (notes + velocity), bypassing "patterns on" switch. I tried even via hardware (from pc "Kontakt midi out "script generated CC + notes" to mac), but no way: although the midi data are recorded and everything seems to be right, once they are played by Kontakt the result is a total mess: notes are wrong and/or wrongly transposed. Is there a reason for that? E.g. the note in the script is C1 but the result in the midi track is C8 etc. Sometimes re-transposing the notes (manually) can resolve, but it is hard work. It seems one can only play the patterns "live" and/or modify them inside Kontakt, but not in a DAW (exporting them into midi tracks, like for instance with Studio Drummer "drag and drop" function). Is there any solution? Thanks.

mhog · Post by **mhog** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:50 pm

... no one?

Zombie Queen · Post by **Zombie Queen** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:37 pm

I remember Akkord script in K3-4, the patterns were stored in data arrays, within script and then read/applied by the script, so this is not quite a midi file. Picking them out of there is not worth the trouble IMO.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:25 am

Akkord instrument is not using MIDI sequences, it has data stored into arrays. I think the same applies to West Africa. Studio Drummer etc. are newer libraries that are utilizing MIDI object in KSP, so that's actually working with MIDI. There's no solution other to wait for an update, if NI even plans to update those two instruments with MIDI object support. Not entirely sure that this will happen.

mhog · Post by **mhog** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:48 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Akkord instrument is not using MIDI sequences, it has data stored into arrays. I think the same applies to West Africa. Studio Drummer etc. are newer libraries that are utilizing MIDI object in KSP, so that's actually working with MIDI. There's no solution other to wait for an update, if NI even plans to update those two instruments with MIDI object support. Not entirely sure that this will happen.

Of course they are midi sequences, the "data arrays" are just "encrypted" midi events (in order to make people play these instruments only via "pattern mode", the midi parameters of the patterns are all twisted when exported: velocity, notes etc.). I don't know why, for me it's artificial. NI claims these instruments are aimed to "playing live" situations. The consequence: no way to export "pattern to midi", if you try, everythng results a mess. Unless one is pleased to save factory pattern switch automations in the track and thinks that is enough for him (a-la Stylus Rmx and similar). I don't, I want midi sequences (notes and velocity). By the way, with Akkord I managed to export its midi sequences: just playing patterns via midi out. It is very easy, because the various Akkord "strums" articulations (which of course are played by midi events) always follow the same notes (C4-D5 or smth), it is only a question of transposing notes in the obtained midi track (e.g. from C1-C3 to C4-C6), and always bypassing the pattern mode once imported the midi sequence associated to Akkord track. This is the only "encryption" used, no velocity or length of the notes twisted. Very useful, much better than "pattern mode on" way. It becomes very easy to write your own strums, or modify the factory ones, then. This way I created my own personal strumming sequences (midi files/apple loops). I though it worked like that with the West Africa patterns, too, but there is no solution (at least I did not find it): no constant sequences, seems every midi parameter is encrypted in a different way for each pattern! Absurd. What a pity.

Mike Greene · Post by **Mike Greene** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Our RealiBanjo instrument uses arrays, rather than MIDI files, and one of our customers managed to get MIDI files out of it using this method:
http://realitone.com/wp-content/uploads ... Output.pdf

Might be worth a try, although depending on how Akkord "plays" it's array data, it might be a different situation.

mhog · Post by **mhog** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:47 pm

Mike Greene wrote:Our RealiBanjo instrument uses arrays, rather than MIDI files, and one of our customers managed to get MIDI files out of it using this method:
http://realitone.com/wp-content/uploads ... Output.pdf

Might be worth a try, although depending on how Akkord "plays" it's array data, it might be a different situation.

Thanks for your kind answer. As I said, getting MIDI files out of patterns in Kontakt instruments (either NIs or third party ones) is relatively easy (usually it is just a question of transposition). It works with Akkord and the others. It only does not work with West Africa, seems the array data are a sort of encrypted maze, they twist notes, lenght and velocity when exported, in a way one can not solve the matter.

neilslade · Post by **neilslade** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:33 pm

YES, you can record the midi information from West Africa without a lot of erroneous notes.

THIS IS HOW I DO IT IN REAPER- we can assume you can make the same settings in any DAW:

1) In Kontakt/Options/Engine/Send Midi To Outside World- unlike other Kontakt instruments, it doesn't matter what you've selected or ticked on/off here

2) Load West Africa in Kontakt

3) Use a MIDI Controller/Keyboard

4) SET RECORD INPUT TO "Record Input (audio or Midi) DO NOT SELECT RECORD OUTPUT

5) Set Midi to record all Midi inputs

6) USE THE KEYSTROKE INDICATED RED KEYS ON YOUR CONTROLLER ONLY- You will see what these keys are in the Kontakt window Only if you've selected "Keyboard" at the top of the Kontakt Tools menu. The red keys will be shown in the keyboard at the bottom of the Kontakt window. Play THOSE KEYS on your controller. They are at the lower end of the keyboard,

7) You must MANUALLY hold/play the red keys to record the correct Midi information. In West Africa, YOU CANNOT: play and trigger/sync from your host/DAW- so don't try, it won't work. You CANNOT use the Kontakt virtual keyboard, you MUST use your Midi controller/keyboard.

That's it. You will now record the West Africa pattern that you are playing with your keys.

Neil Slade
http://www.BrainRadar.com

bobbyquine · Post by **bobbyquine** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:41 pm

Hey Neil,

Thanks for this info but I can't seem to replicate it. I've followed the steps carefully using Kontakt 5 in Reaper, using an external usb midi keyboard, but all that gets recorded is the pattern play note.
Any more tips as to what might be wrong?

Many thanks

B

bobbyquine · Post by **bobbyquine** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:49 pm

Update: Setting Reaper track to Record: Output (MIDI) did the trick!

Thanks again Neil

Best
B

morbank · Post by **morbank** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:14 pm

Has anyone here successfully recorded West Africa MIDI patterns into Logic?

Thanks,
Clay

Logic Pro: 10.3.2
MacBook Pro: OS Sierra 10.12.6

Kontakt patterns to midi tracks (data)